Do 12 Step programs work for any kind of addiction

[Riders]

So I know the statistics say between 5 and 9 percent only people who go to recovery groups get off their addiction. However they also say the more you do, the more your statistics go up. For instance, if you read 12 Step literature, your stats go up, If you get a sponsor if you go to meetings regularly, everything you put into it helps your statistics. So whats the opinion?

 

[King Phenomenon]

So I know the statistics say between 5 and 9 percent only people who go to recovery groups get off their addiction. However they also say the more you do, the more your statistics go up. For instance, if you read 12 Step literature, your stats go up, If you get a sponsor if you go to meetings regularly, everything you put into it helps your statistics. So whats the opinion?

any support is helpful but ultimately its willpower

 

[sun rise]

This is my personal experience:

A number of us were going on a diet based on the "Food Addicts in Recovery" 12 step diet - no sugar, no wheat/gluten - because they are often trigger foods for overeating. Our meals were oat bran/yogurt/fruit for breakfast and protein/veg for lunch and dinner and nothing else. Before starting the diet, we were asked to visit that group's meetings 3 times to better understand what was involved emotionally.

We succeeded in losing a lot of weight. Maintenance was an issue for most but if we had had ongoing support/sponsors, I'd bet most of us would have kept the weight off.

 

[Riders]

This is my personal experience:

A number of us were going on a diet based on the "Food Addicts in Recovery" 12 step diet - no sugar, no wheat/gluten - because they are often trigger foods for overeating. Our meals were oat bran/yogurt/fruit for breakfast and protein/veg for lunch and dinner and nothing else. Before starting the diet, we were asked to visit that group's meetings 3 times to better understand what was involved emotionally.

We succeeded in losing a lot of weight. Maintenance was an issue for most but if we had had ongoing support/sponsors, I'd bet most of us would have kept the weight off.

Yes the more you put into it the more likely you will stay with it.

 

[Kenny]

So I know the statistics say between 5 and 9 percent only people who go to recovery groups get off their addiction. However they also say the more you do, the more your statistics go up. For instance, if you read 12 Step literature, your stats go up, If you get a sponsor if you go to meetings regularly, everything you put into it helps your statistics. So whats the opinion?

I think having someone walk with you is a must.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't think 12-step programs are effective against an addiction to 12-step programs. This is a major failing, given how many of those programs there are these days.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes the more you put into it the more likely you will stay with it.

The plain fact of the matter is this: the only really determiner of what will help with any addiction is your own desire, for your own reasons, to escape it.

I was a smoker for 39 years (I tried to quite twice, one for a whole year, but failed both times). Then 16 years ago, my partner and I decided that we were killing ourselves and that we really, really wanted not to be smokers any more. And we quit, without the help of any program at all (we did use the patch, both of us, for some time). And neither of us has ever had a single drag of tobacco since -- and we are both firm believers that this was one of the better choices we've ever made.

(Now, a disclaimer: we had one thing going for us that helped enormously -- competition. Both of us would rather have eaten our own tongues than give in before that other SOB! )

 

[sun rise]

I don't think 12-step programs are effective against an addiction to 12-step programs. This is a major failing, given how many of those programs there are these days.

That makes zero sense to me. It's like asking if there's something effective to destroy the action of aspirin when you've taken a couple for a headache.

 

[Truth in love]

So I know the statistics say between 5 and 9 percent only people who go to recovery groups get off their addiction. However they also say the more you do, the more your statistics go up. For instance, if you read 12 Step literature, your stats go up, If you get a sponsor if you go to meetings regularly, everything you put into it helps your statistics. So whats the opinion?

The concepts are pretty good.
They can help with many types of addiction, however not all groups accept different addiction struggles.

Personal investment and group quality are big deals.

Also in a great many cases the addictive behavior is being used to mask pain from some sort of trauma.

Side note I don’t like the “I’m an alcoholic” tradition. For many it impacts how they see themselves in a negative way. Owning the problem yes, making it the main identity not so much.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

That makes zero sense to me. It's like asking if there's something effective to destroy the action of aspirin when you've taken a couple for a headache.

Notice the purple rolled-up eyes....attempt at humour!

 

[Orbit]

There is zero clinical evidence that AA is any different from any other addiction "cure". Anecdotally, AA/NA etc seem to work for a certain kind of person, but others just find it sanctimonious and annoying. I personally can't see how regaling others with stories of humiliation and addiction does any good.

 

[Riders]

There is zero clinical evidence that AA is any different from any other addiction "cure". Anecdotally, AA/NA etc seem to work for a certain kind of person, but others just find it sanctimonious and annoying. I personally can't see how regaling others with stories of humiliation and addiction does any good.

A lot of folks in 12 Step programs stay focused on the solution without staying in the past.

On the other hand, I see your point. This is why I have seen many instances of people laughing telling jokes about how messed up they were or telling dirty jokes.

It's like when they got sober they didn't clean up any other part of their lives. So they're the same jerk they were as alcoholics just
sober.
But there are a lot of people who want to stay in the solution as
well. Many of them claim to be recovered alcoholics or recovered over eaters instead of recovering.

 

[RestlessSoul]

any support is helpful but ultimately its willpower

No, it really isn’t. One of the defining characteristics of addiction is powerlessness; one of the principles of AA is that recovery can begin only when we admit our powerlessness and reach out for help.

 

[RestlessSoul]

There is zero clinical evidence that AA is any different from any other addiction "cure". Anecdotally, AA/NA etc seem to work for a certain kind of person, but others just find it sanctimonious and annoying. I personally can't see how regaling others with stories of humiliation and addiction does any good.

Are you speaking from personal experience here?

 

[SomeRandom]

I think some folks might need 12 steps, I think others will find it a waste of time.
Depends on the individual and how many coping strategies they have and can develop.
Though I think professional therapy might be a bit more beneficial, since it can be tailor made (a little bit better than a 12 step anyway.)
I dunno. The infamous 12 step has always seemed more like it’s trying to be a short cut. I don’t mean that people taking it are trying to take a short cut, of course.
But I dunno, it’s like trying to be psychiatric help but run by laymen. That’s just the vibe I’ve always gotten

 

[PureX]

So I know the statistics say between 5 and 9 percent only people who go to recovery groups get off their addiction. However they also say the more you do, the more your statistics go up. For instance, if you read 12 Step literature, your stats go up, If you get a sponsor if you go to meetings regularly, everything you put into it helps your statistics. So whats the opinion?

If you are facing an addiction, you are facing something that is ruining your ability to live your life, and will probably kill you, slowly and painfully, eventually. And may well land you in prison along the way.

It's as serious a problem as there is. Like having terminal cancer, only worse for anyone that cares about you.

And the recovery prognosis is not in the addict's favor. For alcohol addiction only 1 out of every 32 alcoholics ever even seek help, and only half of them will stay sober past the first year. (AA stats) For drug addicts the positive prognosis is only about half that good. And 12 step recovery programs have the best recovery numbers of any of the various addiction recovery methods and organizations. I don't know the stats for the other 12 step programs, like GA, OA, SA, or CA, off hand, though (gambling, over-eating, sex, and co-dependence addictions).

Different processes will work better for different people, but when facing such an intractable and devastating illness, it makes sense to accept and use all the help one can get access to. I am coming up on 30 years sober after 20 years as an active alcoholic. My own recovery involved twice weekly meetings with a good psychologist, once weekly meetings with a Bible discussion group that was focused on interpretation, not proselytizing, and a minimum of 3 AA meetings a week, working through the steps with a sponsor. This all worked for me, but I "hit bottom" hard and was willing to do whatever it took to save what was left of my life. I stayed in AA for 8 years, and eventually sponsored many other people. And the thing I learned from that was that the key to recovery is to surrender completely to the process. Just give up and do what you're told by those who are trying to help you, and keep doing it. I have seen a lot of hard core drunks and drug addicts recover their lives and their sanity and go on to live well and fully. But I have also seem some die in their addictions. I make no judgments and pass no blame. It's a very difficult disease to overcome. So I encouraged people to take any help they could get.

 

[Riders]

If you are facing an addiction, you are facing something that is ruining your ability to life your life, and will probably kill you, slowly and painfully, eventually. And may well land you in prison along the way.

It's as serious a problem as there is. Like having terminal cancer, only worse for anyone that cares about you.

And the recovery prognosis is not in the addict's favor. For alcohol addiction only 1 out of every 32 alcoholics ever even seek help, and only half of them will stay sober past the first year. (AA stats) For drug addicts the positive prognosis is only about half that good. And 12 step recovery programs have the best recovery numbers of any of the various addiction recovery methods and organizations. I don't know the stats for the other 12 step programs, like GA, OA, SA, or CA, off hand, though (gambling, over-eating, sex, and co-dependence addictions).

Different processes will work better for different people, but when facing such an intractable and devastating illness, it makes sense to accept and use all the help one can get access to. I am coming up on 30 years sober after 20 years as an active alcoholic. My own recovery involved twice weekly meetings with a good psychologist, once weekly meetings with a Bible discussion group that was focused on interpretation, not proselytizing, and a minimum of 3 AA meetings a week, working through the steps with a sponsor. This all worked for me, but I "hit bottom" hard and was willing to do whatever it took to save what was left of my life. I stayed in AA for 8 years, and eventually sponsored many other people. And the thing I learned from that was that the key to recovery is to surrender completely to the process. Just give up and do what you're told by those who are trying to help you, and keep doing it. I have seen a lot of hard core drunks and drug addicts recover their lives and their sanity and go on to live well and fully. But I have also seem some die in their addictions. I make no judgments and pass no blame. It's a very difficult disease to overcome. So I encouraged people to take any help they could get.

Congratulations! My Mom died after 34 years of sobriety in AA. She got sober after she went to jail for beating up my Dad. She spent 6 months in a woman's halfway house before she came home. I do know statistics go up if you stay in a halfway house,

A year or 2 back I tried to find an eating disorder unit for my overeating. I am going to Overeaters anonymous now. I weighed yesterday and took off 3 pounds this week. Altogether I have lost 37 pounds weight loss after 9 months in the program. So I am averaging 4 pounds a month. I have almost 3 years of recovery in Sex Addicts Anonymous for porn and virtual reality porn mostly.

 

[PureX]

Congratulations! My Mom died after 34 years of sobriety in AA. She got sober after she went to jail for beating up my Dad. She spent 6 months in a woman's halfway house before she came home. I do know statistics go up if you stay in a halfway house,

A year or 2 back I tried to find an eating disorder unit for my overeating. I am going to Overeaters anonymous now. I weighed yesterday and took off 3 pounds this week. Altogether I have lost 37 pounds weight loss after 9 months in the program. So I am averaging 4 pounds a month. I have almost 3 years of recovery in Sex Addicts Anonymous for porn and virtual reality porn mostly.

Sounds like it's working for you. That's great! The more it becomes part of your life the easier it becomes. Eventually it's just normal and automatic. Not hard at all. And the best part is you will get your life back. Your real life, not the endless pursuit of some kind of drug or other that passed for a life, before.

 

[sun rise]

I think some folks might need 12 steps, I think others will find it a waste of time.
Depends on the individual and how many coping strategies they have and can develop.
Though I think professional therapy might be a bit more beneficial, since it can be tailor made (a little bit better than a 12 step anyway.)
I dunno. The infamous 12 step has always seemed more like it’s trying to be a short cut. I don’t mean that people taking it are trying to take a short cut, of course.
But I dunno, it’s like trying to be psychiatric help but run by laymen. That’s just the vibe I’ve always gotten

From my very short time at one, the key is mutual support - we are all in this together - along with honesty. There is real strength in being able to pick up the phone before a stumble and call someone who knows exactly how you feel because they're in the same boat.

It's not for everyone, of course, but for some it's a literal lifesaver.

 

[SomeRandom]

From my very short time at one, the key is mutual support - we are all in this together - along with honesty. There is real strength in being able to pick up the phone before a stumble and call someone who knows exactly how you feel because they're in the same boat.

It's not for everyone, of course, but for some it's a literal lifesaver.

Oh I don’t doubt it’s helpfulness.
I just have a couple of doubts of its theory, so to speak.

It’s always seemed like a well intentioned group therapy session but run by laymen.
That’s just my impression of 12 step programs.
As I am not trained in mental health, I can only really speculate as a layman myself.

I do know some folks working in mental health, to various degrees. I’m kind of curious of their take on it now.