Jesus: Not a God

[rational experiences]

John is also the one who says God is greater than Jesus and that there is only one true God.

This is eternal life, that they should know you, the only true God, and him whom you sent, Jesus Christ.
John 17:3

...the Father is greater than I.
John 14:28

Also, for example Paul also says "I am", if it means person is claiming to be God, then Jesus is not the only one. And, Bible says Jesus is the image of God, so obviously, if person has seen image of God, he has seen also God.

in whom we have our redemption, the forgiveness of our sins; who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. .... Colossians 1:14-16

Once father the first mans human life before any baby boy lived and died.

He however didn't age.

Age means to shift by counting as a human into old. Is what science did to the human life cell.

Once we never became old. Was what we expected to begin to regain in cell life year as end 2012.

The end of time.

An eternal age meant cell would not become old. So we would have began to regain healthy DNA. Then no aging as an eternal human life as one same life cell body.

Was the humans scientists promise to allow it's return.

No nuclear sciences.

Satan's God cloud angels were exact and first.

The Moses then Jesus lost Satan angel cloud mass. Water ground life support was taken above. Satan angel new returned. Then the cloud image mass disappeared into the higher heavens

Image goes.

Was the teaching.

As the Satan angel was gigantic and gods angel.

It's body presence and pressure maintained water returned as spirit to the human form.

Was the exact human teaching no man is God

As the humans origin natural bio form was its highest first. Lost to health by human science mass conversions.

The exact teachings.

Jesus was a small man's image only.

Baby man image plus adult man image one new life lost to Satan's angels formed image.

The exact teaching.

Known human awareness why human DNA genesis is sacrificed gone removed.

Saved DNA is any DNA that still lives.

The Dalai lamas Tibetan mountain history. Their family life saved above knew he owned a sign when he was forced to leave his mountain home. A bad omen.

O men. As men placed maths as their woman at their side para. And all wrongs began by maths designed civilization invention.

That circumstance isn't never ending life.

A human owns a biology of self existence.

You never knew what the true life age of any species should be.

 

[Psalm23]

Yes it actually does. "New Age" thinking is about as old as the 1970s, where it was an emergence from the Occult movement.
New Age movement | religious movement



But back on this. You don't think God dwells in All creatures and beings great and small, that he is the Creator of the universe; timeless, unchanging, omnipotent; all that was, is and will Be?

Edit: My responses to the quotes are reversed.

I believe God is the creator and sustainer of all life. I agree with God as timeless, unchanging and omnipotent. I don't know what you mean by all that was, is, and will be so cannot give a response on that. I differ on the point of God dwelling in all creatures. I believe God's Spirit gives life and sustains the life of all creatures .

 

[firedragon]

You could also take the standpoint that these statements as being similar to "Tat tvam asi"(thou art that), meaning one is one with Brahman. He uses "the Father" here, but that could be taken to signify something greater than oneself(like a universal essence), in my opinion.

Its completely different. Tattvam asi maybe similar to some thoughts in the Tanakh, but not the quotes in the OP. They are completely different.

 

[firedragon]

In the Gospels of Matthew , Mark , Luke and John, Jesus does not said in the exact words that he is God. However he claimed himself as God through his actions and certain things he said, in my opinion.

If that is the case, he also says that God greater than him, God is greater than all, he speaks of "My God and your God", etc etc etc etc.

 

[firedragon]

But back on this. You don't think God dwells in All creatures and beings great and small, that he is the Creator of the universe; timeless, unchanging, omnipotent; all that was, is and will Be?

Thats pantheism. As you know, the bible is deemed monotheistic in essence by many. But I must say there were some Muslims who had a pantheistic concept. Pantheism is a logical endeavour to answer questions, and so is panentheism. Yet I cannot fathom any of this from the Bible or Islamic scripture, vis a vis the Quran.

Thus, the question "God dwells in all creatures" does not enter that equation.

 

[pearl]

In the Gospels of Matthew , Mark , Luke and John, Jesus does not said in the exact words that he is God. However he claimed himself as God through his actions and certain things he said, in my opinion.

Jesus only proclaimed the 'Kingdom' of God, the early church communities proclaimed him God and Son of God in post Resurrection faith.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Jesus only proclaimed the 'Kingdom' of God, the early church communities proclaimed him God and Son of God in post Resurrection faith.

No, He did that Himself in the Bible and so did others. There's many verses where people are worshipping Him, and it uses that word for what they're doing. You're Catholic, right? The Trinity is a dogma of the Church, revealed by God Himself with the incarnation of Christ.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?.

Jesus never once declared that he was God or the Son of God.

"You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel. Jesus says things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John, and that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things."

If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?.

Jesus never once declared that he was God or the Son of God.

"You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel. Jesus says things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John, and that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things."

This is one of those cases where you have to choose which of the contrary scriptures you will emphasize. There are some scriptures which seem to indicate that Jesus is not God, because he clearly worships God and prays to God and says things like that he does the will of the father. And yet there are other scriptures that do seem to indicate that he is divine, usch as "In the beginning was the word and the word was with God, and the word WAS God." Since the council of Nicea, orthodox Christians have chosen to pay attention to the set of verses that indicate Jesus was God.

All that of course runs counter to the Tanakh (OT) which states four time, FOUR TIMES, that God is not a man -- must be a critical message to be repeated so many times. This is one of the big reasons that Jews are not convinced by the Christian gospel.

 

[viole]

If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?.

Jesus never once declared that he was God or the Son of God.

"You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel. Jesus says things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John, and that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things."

Maybe He also got confused with that trinity stuff and all. Who wouldn’t?

ciao

- viole

 

[firedragon]

No, He did that Himself in the Bible and so did others. There's many verses where people are worshipping Him, and it uses that word for what they're doing. You're Catholic, right? The Trinity is a dogma of the Church, revealed by God Himself with the incarnation of Christ.

Were people praying to Jesus in the Gospels or were they paying obeisance? The word is Proskinor.

 

[The Hammer]

I believe God is the creator and sustainer of all life. I agree with God as timeless, unchanging and omnipotent.

Check some of the bolded passages, I see similarities. Even removing Sins.

I don't know what you mean by all that was, is, and will be so cannot give a response on that

Creator of All things. Past present future.

I differ on the point of God dwelling in all creatures. I believe God's Spirit gives life and sustains the life of all creatures .

Check some of the bolded passages, similarities abound.

10.3
He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginningless, as the Supreme Lord of all the worlds – he only, undeluded among men, is freed from all sins.


10.4-5
Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, control of the senses, control of the mind, happiness and distress, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy – all these various qualities of living beings are created by Me alone.

10.32-33
Of all creations I am the beginning and the end and also the middle, O Arjuna. Of all sciences I am the spiritual science of the self, and among logicians I am the conclusive truth. Of letters I am the letter A, and among compound words I am the dual compound. I am also inexhaustible time, and of creators I am Brahmā.

10.41-42
Know that all opulent, beautiful and glorious creations spring from but a spark of My splendor. But what need is there, Arjuna, for all this detailed knowledge? With a single fragment of Myself I pervade and support this entire universe.

 

[Kenny]

If Jesus Never Called Himself God, How Did He Become One?.

Jesus never once declared that he was God or the Son of God.

"You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel. Jesus says things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John, and that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things."

I think this too much of a cursory look at a very complex subject matter.

I would like to point out that you certainly omitted all the times he was called the Son of God.

But to say that Jesus never once said he was the Son of God:

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

The fact that he admits that he had said it obviously also dictates that it was more than just once. IMV.

But, additionally, you have demons recognizing him on more than one occasion:

Luke 8:28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out, and fell down before him, and with a loud voice said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God most high? I beseech thee, torment me not.

Then you have the reality that Jesus never corrected anyone when they did say he was the Son of God and, for that matter, when they said he was God:

John 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

Jesus didn't amend it or correct it (which would be a sin had it not been true)

Most of the time, the hiccup in understanding is when one tries to equate The Word who is God, (Jesus before he came as a man), as equally the same as when he was a man (having emptied himself of God attributes), and before he returned with his position reviving back all power and authority.

Regardless, it is all over the scriptures as I read it.

 

[The Hammer]

Regardless, it is all over the scriptures as I read it.

Same and I disagree with the conclusions.

 

[Kenny]

Same and I disagree with the conclusions.

Yet... there it is in black and white

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Were people praying to Jesus in the Gospels or were they paying obeisance? The word is Proskinor.

People were falling down at His feet to adore Him. The wise men worshipped Him as an infant. When people did that to angels, the angel would correct them, tell them they are but a messenger and also typically tell them to worship God alone. Jesus never corrected those people who were adoring Him, just like He never corrected the people who referred to Him as Lord, Son of God and God.
Was Jesus worshipped during His earthly ministry?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But to say that Jesus never once said he was the Son of God:

John 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Given all the other aspects of Jesus in relation to God, we could conclude Jesus is not a literal 'Son' of God.

A Son becomes a Father and the Father is greater than I. We see that in this life, that is all about maturity of knowledge.

So when Jesus Christ, in the Station of the 'Son', returns in the Station of the 'Father', we can see why Jesus said that would then guide us unto all Truth, as he had more to say that could not be said as the 'Son'.

That is why Baha'u'llah is known as the Father. We can now see the full measure of Jesus Christ the Son, as Baha'u'llah "The Glory of God" the Father.

IMHO

Regards Tony

 

[metis]

I tend to go with Jesus is of God ["essence"] but is not precisely God.

 

[Kenny]

"You do find Jesus calling himself God in the Gospel of John, or the last Gospel. Jesus says things like, "Before Abraham was, I am." And, "I and the Father are one," and, "If you've seen me, you've seen the Father." These are all statements you find only in the Gospel of John, and that's striking because we have earlier gospels and we have the writings of Paul, and in none of them is there any indication that Jesus said such things."

I thought I would address this part more specifically:

Since you said "only in the Gospel of John" - I thought I would look at the book of Matthew:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Here Matthew recognizes him as God.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Apparently, someone in Heaven thought so.

Matthew 4:3 Then the tempter approached Him and said, “If You are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread.”

The tempter recognized him

Matthew 8:29 Suddenly [the demons] shouted, “What do You have to do with us, Son of God?”

Demons recognized him

Matthew 14: 33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Jesus certainly didn't have a problem with people calling him the Son of God.

Matthew 16:15-17 “But you,” He asked them, “who do you say that I am?” Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God!” And Jesus responded, “Simon son of Jonah, you are blessed because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father in heaven.”

Jesus acknowledged Peter's statement as not only true but revealed by the Father

Matthew 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

A Roman understood.



So, it is pretty much everywhere and confirmed by a multiplicity of venues.

 

[Kenny]

Given all the other aspects of Jesus in relation to God, we could conclude Jesus is not a literal 'Son' of God.

A Son becomes a Father and the Father is greater than I. We see that in this life, that is all about maturity of knowledge.

So when Jesus Christ, in the Station of the 'Son', returns in the Station of the 'Father', we can see why Jesus said that would then guide us unto all Truth, as he had more to say that could not be said as the 'Son'.

That is why Baha'u'llah is known as the Father. We can now see the full measure of Jesus Christ the Son, as Baha'u'llah "The Glory of God" the Father.

IMHO

Regards Tony

Certainly maturity of knowledge is important.

The part is what I meant in the previous post about comparing Jesus after He came as man with The Word as He was before He was man.

The life of Jesus is parenthetical to Him being God before and after.

 

[firedragon]

People were falling down at His feet to adore Him. The wise men worshipped Him as an infant. When people did that to angels, the angel would correct them, tell them they are but a messenger and also typically tell them to worship God alone. Jesus never corrected those people who were adoring Him, just like He never corrected the people who referred to Him as Lord, Son of God and God.
Was Jesus worshipped during His earthly ministry?

I understand that you are a sincere person. You have all the right to your faith. You did not answer my question SF.