Hope for things which are not seen.

[Trailblazer]

Fate sets the course, but We navigate the waves.

I think that says it all.

I started a thread that deals with fate and free will:
I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the Lord, do all these things

You can reply there is you want to.

 

[The Hammer]

As a logical person I realize that everybody cannot do what some people can do. It just makes no sense at all. What is philosophically 'possible' is not reality.

It makes no sense to you and that's ok. Maybe, I am just not a logical person? I find being less logic driven all the time can push boundaries (and people), in wonderful new ways.

 

[YoursTrue]

For what we cannot know - what comes after death, existence before birth, the origin and eternal destiny of all - what is the best-case scenerio? If you could define heaven, what would it be?

For me - no heirarchies, no one better than anyone else, no sexism, no racism, all equally educated, equal and all-knowing, everyone fully present with everyone else.

I can't speak for heirarchies, but I do know that the Bible says in the future there will be no more pain or suffering. And life will be wonderful. I believe that. You can go to jw.org to learn more about it.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't but I assume it would be some concept of a perfect life.
I'm not looking for a perfect life.
I am happiest overcoming struggles/suffering. I need something to challenge me.
I'm not sure the point of an existence where everything is given to me.

It's wonderful to explore and examine things in a good way.

 

[YoursTrue]

I cannot even imagine anything worse than coming back here. That would be hell for me.

How do you know that?
I believe that the afterlife is going to be a whole lot more interesting than this life, less the suffering which is causes solely by this material world of dust.

When Einstein was dying, he reportedly said when asked about the future, this life was enough for him. While I feel sorry for someone with that attitude, I can understand. He wasn't sure about God, I am convinced he didn't know Him but he was honest in a certain sense. I have learned what the Bible says that there will be new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness will dwell. Not boring but wonderful.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is off topic but since we were talking about suffering and if it is a choice, I wanted to say one last thing. I realize that some of my suffering is a choice because I am choosing to suffer for what I love and consider important. I do not blame anyone for my suffering. I certainly do not blame myself because it is a choice. I could be enjoying life more if I chose to because I have the means and I could make the time but other things are more important to me than enjoying life.

 

[idea]

Really interesting replies. Perhaps a similar

Sounds boring. Everyone the same.

And equally educated?
You just get it handed to you?
So much and no more, you arent allowed
to learn anything unless everyone moves in lockstep.
No thanks, I will try some other, place.

Current educational institutions have baggage - I should have left it at "all-knowing", that for me, the best-case scenario would be for everyone to be "all-knowing". No misunderstandings between anyone, no secrets, ability to create anything you want - know how to garden, how to play any musical instrument, know how to paint, know how to build, no limitations of the mind for anyone.

 

[idea]

The state of being in the absence of suffering.

Do you think it is possible to understand joy without suffering?

I think of little kids who have never experienced death, or anything too horrible - it seems like those kids are pretty happy without having known suffering. Opposites can define one another, it is true. If there was a way to create haven without it's opposite, without suffering to gain full appreciation - I prefer the state of a child who has never known pain.

No PTSD for anyone, no regrets, no bad memories, no shame, no mistakes, just pure childlike enjoyment of color/food/music/smells - I think the ultimate happiness/joy/heaven would only be achieved in the absolute absence of pain and suffering - in that suffering would never have existed - not in the past, present, or future.

 

[idea]

We reincarnate.

So, this life is life after death - we are all already in heaven? Heaven on earth

 

[idea]

I can't speak for hierarchies,

Hierarchies are a big deal to me.

I think some find joy only from putting others down, enjoy the pain of others, enjoy being more powerful than others - their defined heaven is ruling over, and controlling others.

Even if they do not admit to liking the idea of hell, and enjoying seeing others suffer - perhaps they would just enjoy seeing themselves as a savior, enjoy others "needing" them for something, like to pity others, like others to worship them - happiness = others being dependent.

Personally, any kind of hierarchy is the opposite of heaven. I neither seek to be a follower, nor a leader. I think it is best to be "with" others.

but I do know that the Bible says in the future there will be no more pain or suffering. And life will be wonderful. I believe that. You can go to jw.org to learn more about it.

So, how do you define your personal heaven? Let's say you die, God greets you at the pearly gate, and tells you that you now have the power to create your own reality. What kind of a world do you make? Who is there with you? What do you spend your days and eons doing?

A small intimate gathering around a fireplace perhaps

Unlimited time to paint, to create music, to garden, to travel, to meet others. Perhaps you can run and not be weary, fly, ski down mountains, swim like a fish, explore galaxies, create universes - what do you do? Unlimited creative potential = heaven to me. No upper limits to the number of songs, landscapes, art, experiences

Let's say everyone has progressed to the same state - no one needs help with anything anymore, no one needs saving or preaching to - no work needed, all suffering and problems gone - what do you do? Dream a little

 

[Audie]

Really interesting replies. Perhaps a similar


Current educational institutions have baggage - I should have left it at "all-knowing", that for me, the best-case scenario would be for everyone to be "all-knowing". No misunderstandings between anyone, no secrets, ability to create anything you want - know how to garden, how to play any musical instrument, know how to paint, know how to build, no limitations of the mind for anyone.

Just given to you?
You get nothing from learning?
No way i want that.

 

[idea]

Just given to you?
You get nothing from learning?
No way i want that.

To me, pleasure comes from using knowledge, not in gaining it.

 

[Trailblazer]

A small intimate gathering around a fireplace perhaps

Unlimited time to paint, to create music, to garden, to travel, to meet others. Perhaps you can run and not be weary, fly, ski down mountains, swim like a fish, explore galaxies, create universes - what do you do? Unlimited creative potential = heaven to me. No upper limits to the number of songs, landscapes, art, experiences

That scene in the photo is exactly where I would like to be and I could be somewhere like that if my life was not so constrained.

I believe that the afterlife might be something like you envision except that it won't be a material world, as everything will be made of spiritual elements, including our bodies. Other than that I know very little.

“O My servants! Sorrow not if, in these days and on this earthly plane, things contrary to your wishes have been ordained and manifested by God, for days of blissful joy, of heavenly delight, are assuredly in store for you. Worlds, holy and spiritually glorious, will be unveiled to your eyes.You are destined by Him, in this world and hereafter, to partake of their benefits, to share in their joys, and to obtain a portion of their sustaining grace. To each and every one of them you will, no doubt, attain.” Gleanings, p. 329

Judging by the following quote I think there will be scenery, but how we will see it and what it will look like is a mystery.

“The spiritual world is like unto the phenomenal world. They are the exact counterpart of each other. Whatever objects appear in this world of existence are the outer pictures of the world of heaven.”
The Promulgation of Universal Peace, p. 10

 

[idea]

That scene in the photo is exactly where I would like to be and I could be somewhere like that if my life was not so constrained.

Hope for things not yet attained - dream and set aside a little for that future cozy cabin with a view, and in the meantime, find little moments of escape - even if just a bench at a park, hearing a bird sing, a moment to enjoy a warm cup ❤. Vision - dream - believe change, grow, become... I mean, if you are going to choose to believe in something, might as well choose to believe in something really really good .

 

[Audie]

Hope for things not yet attained - dream and set aside a little for that future cozy cabin with a view, and in the meantime, find little moments of escape - even if just a bench at a park, hearing a bird sing, a moment to enjoy a warm cup ❤. Vision - dream - believe change, grow, become... I mean, if you are going to choose to believe in something, might as well choose to believe in something really really good .

Some of us find belief is not merely a matter of choosing.

 

[idea]

Some of us find belief is not merely a matter of choosing.

Do you find there are a few things we humans do not know? For what we do not know, my mind cannot just go blank, I cannot keep myself from wondering, imagining, guessing - and if there is nothing more that can be done then "hope", it is fun to hope for something good.

 

[rational experiences]

For what we cannot know - what comes after death, existence before birth, the origin and eternal destiny of all - what is the best-case scenerio? If you could define heaven, what would it be?

For me - no heirarchies, no one better than anyone else, no sexism, no racism, all equally educated, equal and all-knowing, everyone fully present with everyone else.

Humans to be the origin only human DNA once was the same human everywhere as the human.

Which cannot happen as earths origin mass over many years has changed.

From its origins.

As we all live inside of the heavens and our life is mutual water cooled supported oxygenated.

So no hierarchy would also impose no changes to the lower ground heavens surrounding us either.

So we could live mutually as consciousness seeing we all use our human head the same no matter what different DNA biology we own.

Which would be technologies removal.

Cannot actually envision greedy man's want to support such changes myself.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

If suffering is a choice, as you said, why can't you just choose not to suffer?

It wasn't specified who's choice. As you stated, only a masochist would choose to inflict suffering to their self. However, we can make choices that could potentially inflict suffering onto others.

 

[Mark Charles Compton]

Sounds boring. Everyone the same.

Therefore, whatever it is that we all come from and will return. Assuming it is indeed conscience as God is purported to be, I think you may have found the thread that leads to and from the beginnings and endings of what I believe to be the cyclic universe.

 

[Audie]

Do you find there are a few things we humans do not know? For what we do not know, my mind cannot just go blank, I cannot keep myself from wondering, imagining, guessing - and if there is nothing more that can be done then "hope", it is fun to hope for something good.

That's nothing to do with " choosing" to believe.
In the event, I am not into self deception.