Christian Warfare

[Mister Emu]

I believe in non-violent resistance to evil as a way of communicating one's disapproval. I'm not sure that this is the same as pacifism (many commentators claim it is not).

I follow what I believe is the Christ's will. You describe yourself as a Christian, so what teaching is it you follow?

I would consider any blanket refusal to act in violence as pacifism, and extreme pacifism at that, but that is neither here nor there.

I follow what Christ clearly commanded as His will. And, while I do my best to apply what He did teach to situations He did not address, I don't presume to place those conclusions among His commands.

 

[74x12]

I think we should not judge one another. A pacifist should not judge another Christian who does serve their country in the military and those who serve should not judge a pacifist Christian. Because they're all following their own conscience on both sides.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jesus set an example of non-violence.

Really? We must have read very different Bibles, then.

Aside from the incidents in the Gospels where he inflicted violence himself (e.g. attacking money-changers with a bullwhip, or inducing demon-posessed pigs to dash thenselves on rocks), he's almost gleeful many times at the promise of violence to come.

I would say that Jesus isn't so much opposed to violence as he is an advocate for God alone (or Jesus himself at times) being the one to commit violence.

 

[Sand Dancer]

God the Father, and His son, Jesus, have never been 'at odds'! Where did you get this idea from?

Jesus' message and Yahweh's demeanor were pretty much opposite of each other. Yahweh, the violent, jealous, vindictive god vs Jesus, the champion of the poor, sick and marginalized.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I think we should not judge one another. A pacifist should not judge another Christian who does serve their country in the military and those who serve should not judge a pacifist Christian. Because they're all following their own conscience on both sides.

The thing is that Christians should judge each other, but not judge unbelievers, which seems to be the opposite of what really goes on.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

As a follower of Jesus Christ, I am of the belief that I should not fight, or resort to physical violence. At points in the past, as a younger soul, I tried to justify defensive warfare, but as an older person I have become convinced of the rightness of non-violence.
The passage of scripture that plays loudly in my ears is Ephesians 6:10-12. It says,'Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places'.
Some people regard non-violence as a form of cowardice, but my belief is that it is better to sacrifice one's life non-violently, than to sacrifice it attempting to take the lives of others. Jesus set an example of non-violence.
I'm not so naive as to think that there isn't great pain involved in the non-violent response to evil. It raises many difficult questions, but I believe the long term consequences of non-violence benefits all mankind. What do you think?

I think 2 Corinthians 10:4 is speaking about Christians that the weapons of our warfare are Not carnal,.......
That is in harmony with Jesus' teachings found at Matthew 26:52 to return the sword to its place, for those who take up the sword will perish by the sword.

Of course Jesus was Not speaking about self defence. That is another matter.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Jesus' message and Yahweh's demeanor were pretty much opposite of each other. Yahweh, the violent, jealous, vindictive god vs Jesus, the champion of the poor, sick and marginalized.

..... and Jesus will continue to champion for the poor, sick and marginalized as mentioned at Psalms 72:12-14,8.
The ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The thing is that Christians should judge each other, but not judge unbelievers, which seems to be the opposite of what really goes on.

Jesus taught Not to judge people such as to impute a bad or wrong motive to another.
God's judgement on matters is already recorded in Scripture for all to read.

 

[savagewind]

If only other Christian throughout history had thought the same there would not gave been so many wars of religion

Nominal Christians.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

So, if your children are threatened, you just rather them be killed, than use violence to prevent that? Ciao- viole

Self defence is Not the same thing as taking up arms.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Often a law imposed by the religion.

I find the Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2 ) has two important parts:
1) Tell others about the good news of God's Kingdom - Matthew 24:14; Acts of the Apostles 1:8; Daniel 2:44.
2) Live by Jesus' New commandment found at John 13:34-35
To have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
In other words, to now love neighbor MORE than self, more than the old Golden Rule - Leviticus 19:18

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Jesus' message and Yahweh's demeanor were pretty much opposite of each other. Yahweh, the violent, jealous, vindictive god vs Jesus, the champion of the poor, sick and marginalized.

In the Gospel account, Jesus kinda runs hot and cold as a champion of the poor.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Jesus taught Not to judge people such as to impute a bad or wrong motive to another.
God's judgement on matters is already recorded in Scripture for all to read.

Matthew 18:15-17“If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

1 Corinthians 5:1-13 "It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife. And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you. For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing. When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus, you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. ..."

1 Timothy 5:20 "As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear."

Titus 3:10 "As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him."

2 Thessalonians 3:14 "If anyone does not obey what we say in this letter, take note of that person, and have nothing to do with him, that he may be ashamed."

 

[Sand Dancer]

In the Gospel account, Jesus kinda runs hot and cold as a champion of the poor.

Yes, many contradictions in the Bible, but since it's impossible to go by all of it without looking like a hypocrite, I prefer to go by the positive verses only.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

What about all the wars HaShem commanded in the Tanakh? He's called the Lord of Armies over and over again; he calls himself this. It seems at odds with this kind of pacifism.

Jesus was Not a pacifist - Please notice Jesus will use (Not people) but angelic armies at Revelation 19:14-15.
The ' sword-like executional words from Jesus' mouth ' will rid the Earth of the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4.
So, Jesus is Not against all war because Jesus will be Commander in Chief at Armageddon. ( Hail to the Chief !)
Armageddon to war to end all wars - Psalms 46:9; Psalms 72:8; Psalms 72:12-14

 

[74x12]

The thing is that Christians should judge each other, but not judge unbelievers, which seems to be the opposite of what really goes on.

The Bible doesn't say that.

 

[Sand Dancer]

The Bible doesn't say that.

I posted some verses in other response.

 

[74x12]

I posted some verses in other response.

It says let us not judge one another. (Romans 14:13) So he is taking to Christians. Christians should not judge Christians.

Yes he does speak of churches having a kind of court for themselves (1 Corinthians 6) but that is not the kind of spiritual judgment we're talking about in Romans 14:13 or what I'm talking about. That is about resolving disputes between saints fairly.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Oh, I don't know about that. Jesus could be violent when he wanted to.

Violent or an an Avenger for the sake of righteousness.
Jesus takes the decisive action of Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-15 for the sake of the figurative humble 'sheep' at Jesus' coming Glory Time found at Matthew 25:31-33,37.

 

[Sand Dancer]

It says let us not judge one another. (Romans 14:13) So he is taking to Christians. Christians should not judge Christians.

Yes he does speak of churches having a kind of court for themselves (1 Corinthians 6) but that is not the kind of spiritual judgment we're talking about in Romans 14:13 or what I'm talking about. That is about resolving disputes between saints fairly.

So many different kinds of judgement.