Ever realize that "Dating" is a practice for divorce?

[oldbadger]

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What are yalls input...just curious on what you think of this video

I switched off where he said that he was guided by the Holy Spirit.

Dating is not setting up for divorce, dating is just dating. Many theists may not like the idea of dating due to their ideas about morals imo.
I wonder how many 'meet n marry' couples break up, compared with 'thirty dates n marry'?

Dating is great for folks of all age groups, teens and up, so let's leave it all alone, imo.

 

[PureX]

I don't think dating is the problem, I think the fact that we don't teach our young people about the importance of making and sticking to a commitment is the problem. And the blame falls on our capitalist, consumer-driven culture, where everything becomes a commodity to be sold for a profit, and thereby everything becomes an object of desire to be purchased, used, and then thrown away when it's no longer desired so we can desire the next thing. It's a way of life based on desire, consumption, and waste. And this is a terrible way to view a marriage partnership. But in western culture it's how we've been taught to view EVERYTHING.

The problem is not dating. Dating is a great idea as it help us to make better decisions about who we choose to partner with, in life. The problem is our culture of desire-based consumption and disposal.

 

[MyM]

وَالْمُحْصَنَاتُ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ ۖ كِتَابَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ ۚ وَأُحِلَّ لَكُمْ مَا وَرَاءَ ذَٰلِكُمْ أَنْ تَبْتَغُوا بِأَمْوَالِكُمْ مُحْصِنِينَ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحِينَ ۚ فَمَا اسْتَمْتَعْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْهُنَّ فَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ فَرِيضَةً ۚ وَلَا جُنَاحَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِيمَا تَرَاضَيْتُمْ بِهِ مِنْ بَعْدِ الْفَرِيضَةِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيمًا حَكِيمًا | and married women, excepting who your oaths hold authority over.


This is Allah’s ordinance for you, And allowed to you is other then these if you see them with your wealth with chaste intentions other then fornication therefore those who you seek enjoyment from then give them their reward/wage/dowry obligation on you and there is no blame upon you in what you may agree upon after the settlement. Indeed Allah is all-knowing, all-wise. | An-Nisaa : 24



The notion of slavery is absurd to me but would leave an all time low if we take malakat aymanihim to mean slaves. It would mean you can have sex with a slave's wife and this is what the tafsirs say. This is absurd. The meaning to me is simple. It means you aren't allowed to have sex with married women except those who you are married to.

Then it shows a second form of who we are allowed, other than what has been mentioned, which is so far married women that our oaths have authority over, so the second form is Muta, which is by the verb "istamaatum".

To me, slavery is absurd and something God would never command. And so this verse explains what the second form of malakat aymanihim is, which is Muta. The first is marriage.

As for ahadith, you are probably aware of the many that say 4:24 was revealed for Muta.

I forgot you are shi'ee Yall allow it.
All I will say is that if you do not take the Ahadith with the Quran that would be wrong.
To say that it means "mut'a" is your own interpretations. Not from the Sunnah. It was first allowed, then not allowed with authenticated ahadith.
But yall still believe in it.

Right hands possess...during the times of wars, women were left apart...there were ways of dealing with them and emancipating was the best way and there are rules to obey. Nowadays, you don't have that going on. But to say that it means muta'a doesn't mean to marry for this time and then release...poor girl as well!

Abu Rafi' reported Allah's messenger pbuh as saying, "Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch when he hears something regarding which I have commanded or forbidden and saying, 'I do not know, we found in God's book we have followed'"
reference: Mishkat al-Masabih 162 in book reference: Book 1, Hadith 156.

 

[Link]

I forgot you are shi'ee Yall allow it.
All I will say is that if you do not take the Ahadith with the Quran that would be wrong.
To say that it means "mut'a" is your own interpretations. Not from the Sunnah. It was first allowed, then not allowed with authenticated ahadith.
But yall still believe in it.

Right hands possess...during the times of wars, women were left apart...there were ways of dealing with them and emancipating was the best way and there are rules to obey. Nowadays, you don't have that going on. But to say that it means muta'a doesn't mean to marry for this time and then release...poor girl as well!

Abu Rafi' reported Allah's messenger pbuh as saying, "Let me not find one of you reclining on his couch when he hears something regarding which I have commanded or forbidden and saying, 'I do not know, we found in God's book we have followed'"
reference: Mishkat al-Masabih 162 in book reference: Book 1, Hadith 156.

Our hadiths have it allowed, and I argue so do some of your authentic hadith. But I think it's clear, this is the only verse that we can use to deduce what "who your oaths give authority to" mean, and to me, it's clear it's marriage and muta. And so when Quran talks about malak aymanihim, in most verses it's referring to Muta.

Show me one verse that shows malakat ayhanihim in context of slaves, and then we can talk. It's always in context of sex and who we allowed.

Since you believe Rasool (s) once allowed it, it has to be Muta under that. I just don't believe slaves are allowed in Islam or were ever allowed by God.

To each their own religion.

 

[firedragon]

It is my view divorce doesnt destroy happy marriages. It destroys unhappy ones. It's a good thing divorce.

Lol. So true.

 

[MyM]

Our hadiths have it allowed, and I argue so do some of your authentic hadith. But I think it's clear, this is the only verse that we can use to deduce what "who your oaths give authority to" mean, and to me, it's clear it's marriage and muta. And so when Quran talks about malak aymanihim, in most verses it's referring to Muta.

To me, that is a way for people to follow their whims and desires and then just let the women go. What if she were to get pregnant, what if one just wants her for a one night stand, what ifs galore!! It is not right for one to have ones pleasures and then just divorce. Sunnah of Mohammad pbuh said, it is not allowed til the day of judgement and Ali reported it. But I guess yall have your own.

 

[MyM]

I switched off where he said that he was guided by the Holy Spirit.

Dating is not setting up for divorce, dating is just dating. Many theists may not like the idea of dating due to their ideas about morals imo.
I wonder how many 'meet n marry' couples break up, compared with 'thirty dates n marry'?

Dating is great for folks of all age groups, teens and up, so let's leave it all alone, imo.

Imagine your daughter going on a date and gets date raped....should you leave it alone?

 

[Link]

To me, that is a way for people to follow their whims and desires and then just let the women go. What if she were to get pregnant, what if one just wants her for a one night stand, what ifs galore!! It is not right for one to have ones pleasures and then just divorce. Sunnah of Mohammad pbuh said, it is not allowed til the day of judgement and Ali reported it. But I guess yall have your own.

Well isn't sex with slaves worse? What's the point of that? If you can afford slaves, you can afford a wife!

Anyways, the next verse says "it is for those who fear the curse", meaning they can't control their desires, and marriage is not a option.

And There are rules for if there is a child, but, it's a last resort and implied is the person is going to try not to get a child.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I heard a few things the other day and this was one of them. It did get me to thinking about which is the correct way of meeting one's future spouse. I know how it is done in Islam, (I am a Muslim) but if you sit down and think about it, what he said actually makes sense.

What are yalls input...just curious on what you think of this video

At minute one he makes the unsubstantiated claim: "...and that's why divorce is higher right now than its ever been!" I don't think he has done any real research into the true causes for divorce, so he's pulling that from his own hat. Divorce became more frequent when it became legal and when it lost its stigma. He seems unaware of that.

It feels like a fake conversation. His confidence is misleading, and those bobbing heads at the table are feeding him affirmation instead of critically responding.

I like what he says at minute 2. His idea of getting to know people is very practical, and I thought that was how dating was supposed to work. I didn't know it was a revelation.

I don't like the church fencing. A lot of people never find romance in their church but only when they look more widely.

I like what he says at 3:30 that people have to work on their relationships.

Overall...its better than advising people to sleep first and ask questions later.

 

[MyM]

Well isn't sex with slaves worse? What's the point of that? If you can afford slaves, you can afford a wife!

Anyways, the next verse says "it is for those who fear the curse", meaning they can't control their desires, and marriage is not a option.

And There are rules for if there is a child, but, it's a last resort and implied is the person is going to try not to get a child.

I am not one to argue over this There are rules to be implemented regarding the right hands possess and during war times, there obviously wasn't any option so it was allowed. But to compare it to something Mohammad forbad isn't the right place to go

 

[Link]

I am not one to argue over this There are rules to be implemented regarding the right hands possess and during war times, there obviously wasn't any option so it was allowed. But to compare it to something Mohammad forbad isn't the right place to go

You allow slavery, there's no moral ground on that point to talk down against Muta. Muta is a lesser evil allowed for those who fear God's curse. It's mainly for those who can't get career going or difficult situation and can't get married and are desperate. Yet, what is the justification for slavery?

And Muta does not have to be terminated, it can extend to a marriage.

 

[MyM]

At minute one he makes the unsubstantiated claim: "...and that's why divorce is higher right now than its ever been!" I don't think he has done any real research into the true causes for divorce, so he's pulling that from his own hat. Divorce became more frequent when it became legal and when it lost its stigma. He seems unaware of that.

It feels like a fake conversation. His confidence is misleading, and those bobbing heads at the table are feeding him affirmation instead of critically responding.

I like what he says at minute 2. His idea of getting to know people is very practical, and I thought that was how dating was supposed to work. I didn't know it was a revelation.

I don't like the church fencing. A lot of people never find romance in their church but only when they look more widely.

I like what he says at 3:30 that people have to work on their relationships.

Overall...its better than advising people to sleep first and ask questions later.

I just thought it something to think about because the "dating scene" is date one, move on to the next" so on and so on and so on...it's like, "divorce" in a way as settin one up because you will have gone through so many scenarios before you get to "the one".

 

[MyM]

You allow slavery, there's no moral ground on that point to talk down against Muta. Muta is a lesser evil allowed for those who fear God's curse. It's mainly for those who can't get career going or difficult situation and can't get married and are desperate. Yet, what is the justification for slavery?

And Muta does not have to be terminated, it can extend to a marriage.

But mut'a shouldn't even have to be that choice. When one marries, one marries with the intent of staying together...the prophet pbuh said
narrated by al-Bukhaari (4802) and Muslim (1466) from Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him) from the Prophet pbuh) who said: “A woman may be married for four things: her wealth, her lineage, her beauty and her religious commitment. Seek the one who is religiously-committed, may your hands be rubbed with dust (i.e., may you prosper).”

In the Sunnah, there is no excuse and it isn't "me" allowing anything. I only quoted the aya and what Mohammad pbuh said. Mut'a is forbidden from the Mouth of Mohammad pbuh. Right hands posses is allowed from what Allah has mentioned with guidelines from what Mohammad pbuh taught. That's the bottom line.


يٰۤاَيُّهَا الَّذِيۡنَ اٰمَنُوۡۤا اَطِيۡعُوا اللّٰهَ وَاَطِيۡعُوا الرَّسُوۡلَ وَلَا تُبۡطِلُوۡۤا اَعۡمَالَـكُمۡ

Believers, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and do not cause your works to be nullified. 47:33

 

[epronovost]

Is there really a problem with dating? Is that a problem that someone falls in love, get into a relationship and then breakup when they feel there is no more love? People change, especially younger people. At 18 years your view of the world, of yourself and your perception of others is very different from that of 25. At 18, you are probably still a student or working a small time job you don't intend to keep, you probably live with your parents and you lack experience in love relationship. You might not know what you are searching for and nobody can actually tell you that. Many will try, but they don't know you. At 25, you are probably starting a career, you live on your own and you have acquired a certain emotional maturity and experience. The people who say that you are handling relationship wrong in my opinion are most often guru who are out to sell their own advices.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I heard a few things the other day and this was one of them. It did get me to thinking about which is the correct way of meeting one's future spouse. I know how it is done in Islam, (I am a Muslim) but if you sit down and think about it, what he said actually makes sense.

What are yalls input...just curious on what you think of this video

What's wrong with divorce?

 

[MyM]

What's wrong with divorce?

Nothing, but one should try their best to reconcile. In Islam, there are stages of divorce. If the matters need to be dealt with, then divorce is allowed

 

[Vee]

I heard a few things the other day and this was one of them. It did get me to thinking about which is the correct way of meeting one's future spouse. I know how it is done in Islam, (I am a Muslim) but if you sit down and think about it, what he said actually makes sense.

What are yalls input...just curious on what you think of this video

He makes some really good points.
Dating isn't mentioned in the Bible, but I guess in Bible times most marriages were arranged and people just had to accept whatever their parents decided, specially women. That would have made it very difficult to get to know someone well and figure out if they were good for each other or not.
Today, it's the opposite. Everything is accepted and relationships have become so shallow it's difficult to know what's real and what's a momentary fling.

 

[epronovost]

Everything is accepted and relationships have become so shallow it's difficult to know what's real and what's a momentary fling.

Isn't an arranged marriage made for the convenience and the interests of the patriarchs of both family the most shallow form of relationship there is? Also why is a short relationship shallow? What's this obsession with length?

 

[firedragon]

Isn't an arranged marriage made for the convenience and the interests of the patriarchs of both family the most shallow form of relationship there is? Also why is a short relationship shallow? What's this obsession with length?

Do you have any scientific evidence to this assertion? Just curious.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Nothing, but one should try their best to reconcile.

Why would it be bad to "practice" for divorce if there's nothing wrong with divorce?

In Islam, there are stages of divorce. If the matters need to be dealt with, then divorce is allowed

I don't care what Islam says about divorce.