If God existed would there be proof?

[Kfox]

Yes and that is in philosophy the correspondence theory of truth.
As long as you claim that your worldview is not a form of philosophy, we are stuck here.

worldview? I don't think I have one of those.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

worldview? I don't think I have one of those.

Thanks for your answer.

 

[muhammad_isa]

..Even in your fantasy world where wealth and usury could be eradicated without destroying the global economy, and climate change can mysteriously be solved by superstition..

I think you've hit the nail on the head .. "without destroying the global economy" .. that's your top priority isn't it?

What you call "the global economy", however, is more about privileged nations such as the G7, I would say.
It is quite obvious to me, that mankind cannot continue consuming ever increasing amounts of fossil fuels.
People simply want their cake and eat it. Nothing new there.

2. How is solving climate change going to stop the human population increasing to the point where the earth's finite resources are insufficient to support it?

One step at a time. I don't envisage the majority of people giving up their privileged status due to usury any time soon.
The population increases and decreases for a variety of reasons.

In the case of the near future, I envisage war and disease will cause it to decrease.
i.e. Things will get worse, before they get better

 

[muhammad_isa]

You want to reverse the industrial revolution? This is getting funnier and funnier, You will cure global climate change by sending everyone back to the dark ages..

I'm not going to cure anything.
The majority of people in the world are like you. They don't want change. They want to carry on as they are.

However, if you think that a country can go on for ever, and only go up but not down, you're in for a big shock.
The industrial revolution gave the west a big advantage. It cannot be sustained.
God is the greatest of all. This world is finite. We are being tested.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Is that the entirety of your argument that religion is the only thing that can solve the climate crisis?
Seriously?

Seriously!

That doesn't mean that there is nothing we can do to mitigate the problems from the huge increase in consumption since the industrial revolution. Clearly there are..
..but without a global solution, it can't achieve what is necessary to prevent disaster.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Seriously!

Okay, well you haven't actually made an argument that describes how religion solves the climate crisis though.

That doesn't mean that there is nothing we can do to mitigate the problems from the huge increase in consumption since the industrial revolution. Clearly there are..
..but without a global solution, it can't achieve what is necessary to prevent disaster.

I agree that we need a global solution to the problem but I fail to see how religion is the only way to solve the problem, or what that even means.

 

[muhammad_isa]

I agree that we need a global solution to the problem but I fail to see how religion is the only way to solve the problem, or what that even means.

Well it's not my job to show you the value of religion.

If you can't see that belief in G-d and obeying Him by "enjoining what is right and forbidding evil" has no consequence, then so be it.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Well it's not my job to show you the value of religion.

I didn't ask you to "show the value of religion."

I asked you to explain and back up your claim that only religion can solve the climate crisis.

If you can't see that belief in G-d and obeying Him by "enjoining what is right and forbidding evil" has no consequence, then so be it.

I don't see it because you haven't explained it.
Just saying religion is the only solution for the climate crisis isn't an explanation. It's an assertion.

I always find it so strange when a person can't be bothered to explain their position and then go on to inform someone who questions them that "well if you can't see it I don't know what to tell you." Huh? Explain yourself!

 

[muhammad_isa]

I don't see it because you haven't explained it.
Just saying religion is the only solution for the climate crisis isn't an explanation. It's an assertion.

I have explained it, but you don't seem to understand.
I'll try once more.

It is unlawful to make usurious transactions [ interest on money, for example ]
It is mentioned in both the Bible and Qur'an.

The industrial revolution was financed by usury, as after the reformation, the Catholic church no longer had its moral mandate.
Financial centres first appeared in Amsterdam, and then moved to London.

It is since the industrial revolution that greenhouse gas emissions started to increase and become unsustainably high. The world is heading for disaster. Without a change in the financial system, mankind cannot agree on a path to stop climate change.
They will see their neighbour country as having an unfair advantage etc.

If people embraced Islam, for example, people will eventually stop voting for usurious govts. as they would realise the destruction that it is causing. It means making a sacrifice in the short term, yes.
..but the eventual result is that we avoid the serious disaster that is upon us.

I'm not saying that this is going to happen. I don't think it is anytime soon. That, however, is not the point.
It still remains the case that climate-change cannot be averted without a change in global finance.

 

[setarcos]

Seriously!

That doesn't mean that there is nothing we can do to mitigate the problems from the huge increase in consumption since the industrial revolution. Clearly there are..
..but without a global solution, it can't achieve what is necessary to prevent disaster.

From the Christian perspective....sadly disaster is imminent and inevitable. Man has been given his test and continues to fail. Those few of heightened spirituality would quickly become overwhelmed by the spiritually blind if not for the intervention of God in my opinion. I don't know what this means but for me, I will continue to believe God exists because I "feel" that is truth. I will continue to have faith in God's mercy because I "feel" that is the correct path. I have no faith in this worlds continuance as it is though.

 

[setarcos]

worldview? I don't think I have one of those.

Trust me...everyone suffers a worldview.

 

[muhammad_isa]

From the Christian perspective....sadly disaster is imminent and inevitable. Man has been given his test and continues to fail. Those few of heightened spirituality would quickly become overwhelmed by the spiritually blind if not for the intervention of God in my opinion. I don't know what this means but for me, I will continue to believe God exists because I "feel" that is truth. I will continue to have faith in God's mercy because I "feel" that is the correct path. I have no faith in this worlds continuance as it is though.

I agree with you.
I don't think that these worldly problems will be solved until Jesus returns as the Messiah.

We are in increasing need of G-d's help.
Alleluiah ! His plans are the best of plans.

 

[Kfox]

Trust me...everyone suffers a worldview.

What do you base that on?

 

[John D. Brey]

elves.

If God existed would there be proof?

That's like a wiseacre coelacanth fishing around for doting admirers by pointing out that if water existed there would of a necessity be proof.

It is therefore plain, that nothing can be more evident to any one that is capable of the least reflexion, than the existence of God, or a spirit who is intimately present to our minds, producing in them all that variety or ideas or sensations, which continually affect us, on whom we have an absolute and entire dependence, in short, `in whom we live, and move, and have our being’ [Acts 17:28]. That the discovery of this great truth which lies so near and obvious to the mind, should be attained to by the reason of so very few, is a sad instance of the stupidity and inattention of men who, though they are surrounded with such clear manifestations of the Deity, are yet so little affected by them, that they seem as it were blinded with excess of light.

Bishop Berkeley, A Treatise Concerning the Principles of Human Knowledge, Principle # 149.​

John

 

[night912]

No, no, no.
Ever heard of recession?
Your economic theory is deeply flawed.
Why do nations try to "shore up" their economic growth, at all costs?
It is not difficult to understand. They want to maintain a life style and income.

A level playing field economically does not increase industrialisation.
History shows us how the world changed during the industrial revolution, and what is fueling it.
There are limits to growth. The planet is finite. It is impossible for us all to live a typical western lifestyle.
Either we submit to truth, or we kill each other from greed and enmity.

Now that the cat is out of bag, I'll tell you something so that you don't have to waste your time trying to do something that doesn't work. Religion is a weapon that will do no damage the "western" lifestyle. And if were specifically thinking of using Islam, then I suggest that you start forcing yourself into accepting "western" lifestyle or at the very least, accept that it's here and it won't be going away anytime soon. Trying to destroy the "western" lifestyle with Islam will only bring your war to your front doorstep with "western" lifestyle soldiers accompanied by their newly formed "eastern" lifestyle allies.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Trying to destroy the "western" lifestyle with Islam will only bring your war to your front doorstep with "western" lifestyle soldiers accompanied by their newly formed "eastern" lifestyle allies.

Is that a threat?
..so you choose the "greed and enmity" route..
Why am I not surprised?

I am not personally trying to destroy mankind. It is a consequence of our own greed.
G-d warns us in the Qur'an about usury, and some listen and some don't.

We have this scenario throughout history.
Jesus was denied by the 'sanhedrin' due to argument over money and authority.
It is not hard to see why mankind becomes violent in their love of wealth.

Greed encourages envy, and results in ignorant behaviour.
Why should some nations feel that are entitled to so much more than others?
Do they feel that they are somehow superior by coveting wealth, and insisting on monetary reward for helping others?

 

[metis]

From the Christian perspective....sadly disaster is imminent and inevitable.

But not necessarily "imminent". After all, there was a prediction that Jesus would return "in this generation" back almost 2000 years ago, but that didn't happen. Jesus said only the Father knew when the end of times would be.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I have explained it, but you don't seem to understand.
I'll try once more.

Thank you.

It is unlawful to make usurious transactions [ interest on money, for example ]
It is mentioned in both the Bible and Qur'an.

Okay.

The industrial revolution was financed by usury, as after the reformation, the Catholic church no longer had its moral mandate.
Financial centres first appeared in Amsterdam, and then moved to London.

I'm all in favour of the Catholic Church no longer having any moral mandate. They are a a corrupt and immoral organization that has been systematically hiding pedophiles for who knows how long. They have no moral mandate.

It is since the industrial revolution that greenhouse gas emissions started to increase and become unsustainably high. The world is heading for disaster. Without a change in the financial system, mankind cannot agree on a path to stop climate change.

So you're drawing a connection between the increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere as a result of a huge increase in factory production with usurious transactions? Do you think there were no "usurious transactions" prior to the industrial revolution?

It sounds to me like you're saying that greed is actually the problem here.

They will see their neighbour country as having an unfair advantage etc.

That has probably been the case for most of humanity's existence on this planet.

I agree that there is an unfair distribution of wealth in this world. There are a few billionaires who could probably end world hunger with a single bank transaction.

If people embraced Islam, for example, people will eventually stop voting for usurious govts. as they would realise the destruction that it is causing. It means making a sacrifice in the short term, yes.

They would? And that would solve the climate crisis, how?

..but the eventual result is that we avoid the serious disaster that is upon us.

How?

I'm not saying that this is going to happen. I don't think it is anytime soon. That, however, is not the point.
It still remains the case that climate-change cannot be averted without a change in global finance.

So if we all just convert to Islam, the climate crisis goes away?

 

[metis]

I'm all in favour of the Catholic Church no longer having any moral mandate. They are a a corrupt and immoral organization that has been systematically hiding pedophiles for who knows how long. They have no moral mandate.

Generally speaking, organizations tend to neither be moral nor immoral, but people in such organizations may be either, including at the top. For example, is the United States moral or immoral?

BTW, I am in no way defending the atrocities committed by all too many within the Church, including some popes and bishops.

 

[setarcos]

What do you base that on?

Mainly personal experience interacting with others but also some general psychology and philosophic considerations.
Its a hypothesis...