The Crimson Universe
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Where do they go when they discard the body after liberation (videha-mukti)?
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I understand that the atma that animated their subtle and gross bodies goes nowhere. The illusion of being separate ends. The subtle bodies return to the elements.Where do they go when they discard the body after liberation (videha-mukti)?
No-"where."Where do they go when they discard the body after liberation (videha-mukti)?
No-"where."
Space is a product of Maya. From Paramartika, there is no place in which to go.
While we're at it, there is no "when." Time is also a product of Maya.
Space is a product of Maya. From Paramartika, there is no place in which to go.
While we're at it, there is no "when." Time is also a product of Maya.
What i meant in my question was, what happens to the drop of Brahman that is lying underneath the 5 sheaths.
For me, Brahman is not that hard to understand. It is maya that is.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around the relationship between Brahman and maya.
In the complete works of Vivekananda, he says, that Brahman becomes or appears as the universe by coming through the glass of maya (time space and causation) , and then he says, in Brahman there is no maya (space time and causation).
Isn't there contradiction in his statement? If there's no maya (space time and causation) in Brahman, then how does Brahman uses this maya to appear as this world in the first place? -
Here's the excerpt taken from his -
The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda, Volume 2- Jnana Yoga-
The Absolute has become the universe. By this is not only meant the material world, but the mental world, the spiritual world — heavens and earths, and in fact, everything that exists. Mind is the name of a change, and body the name of another change, and so on, and all these changes compose our universe. This Absolute has become the universe by coming through time, space, and causation. This is the central idea of Advaita. Time, space, and causation are like the glass through which the Absolute is seen, and when It is seen on the lower side, It appears as the universe. Now we at once gather from this that in the Absolute there is neither time, space, nor causation (maya). The idea of time cannot be there, seeing that there is no mind, no thought. The idea of space cannot be there, seeing that there is no external change. What you call motion and causation cannot exist where there is only One. We have to understand this, and impress it on our minds, that what we call causation begins after, if we may be permitted to say so, the degeneration of the Absolute into the phenomenal, and not before; that our will, our desire and all these things always come after that.
What do you make out of this contradictory statement of his?
Maya is the result of avidya...incorrect knowledge...ignorance to one's true nature as Brahman.
How can Brahman be the locus of Avidya?
Through attachment and desire.
Yes, but that's in the vyavaharika plane.
Through attachment, desire etc. we the Brahman (in the form of jivas) become the locus of avidya. We forget our true nature and get trapped in samsara.
But what makes Brahman the locus of avidya, beyond the vyavaharika plane, where the dream/illusion/maya is not active? ... If you say that in the absolute plane there's no avidya or maya then what causes the ripples or waves on the calm surface of Brahman? ... Its got to be maya.
Maya must be inside Brahman in the absolute plane too, in the form of a seed or potential, which ultimately causes all the ripples and waves (nama, rupa, jiva, jagat etc.)
Where do they go when they discard the body after liberation (videha-mukti)?
But what makes Brahman the locus of avidya, beyond the vyavaharika plane, where the dream/illusion/maya is not active? ... If you say that in the absolute plane there's no avidya or maya then what causes the ripples or waves on the calm surface of Brahman? ... Its got to be maya.
Maya must be inside Brahman in the absolute plane too, in the form of a seed or potential, which ultimately causes all the ripples and waves (nama, rupa, jiva, jagat etc.)
Yes, but the ripples come from a different area or from the metaphorical "border-shore" of Brahman - where one side (3/4) is purely spiritual and the other side (1/4) has these dormant seeds.
This is why most prefer to go to the loka of their Ishta-Dev or stay at the Lotus Feet of their IshTa-Dev or connected to their IshTa to prevent the ripples.
Keval advaita - as in absolute moksha - means for the individual self to be extinguished - nirvAN. To stop existing. So that "energy-spot" is recycled in Brahman.
Problem is not the nirvAN. The issue arises when the mind or individuality that is supposed to be "gone" has not actually gone, but is dormant with the seed, i.e. 'on the shore' or 'this side' of the VirAj river.
So you're saying that upon absolute moksha, the individuality of the advaitin is not actually extinguished, but remains in a dormant seed form, again waiting to be manifested or reincarnated in the next kalpa?
And according to the advaitins, what remains in the 3/4th portion of Brahman? The dualists like the iskconites say that this 3/4th portion consists of vaikuntha and goloka... but what does advaita say?
Oh certainly did not mean you or ANYONE on the Hinduism Dir -- and I apologize for not clarifying that.... That is only because people on this Dir are .. from this Dir and familiar with the concepts. I meant that these things can look strange to those who are not Hindu, but more so to those who are non-Hindu athiestsWell, no ridicule from me. I have my views, my fellow Hindus have their view; and all have a right to their views. That is what Hinduism has taught me (I think your reply deserves a winner).
If the person is a strong ''advatist' like us.There is no where, or when. Time and place are illusions transcended with Videhamukta.
So you're saying that upon absolute moksha, the individuality of the advaitin is not actually extinguished, but remains in a dormant seed form, again waiting to be manifested or reincarnated in the next kalpa?