Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yea. My pay stub.You found a better source for wage statistics?
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Yea. My pay stub.You found a better source for wage statistics?
Yet you still called it a "non response" when I brought it up, and dismissed it as nonsense.I didn't say any wage, ever at any time. There are exceptions. We were speaking in generalities. And as a gloss that principle is true.
No, I assess that labor and capital are in conflict, which you dismissed as "black and white thinking" without any further argument, evidence, or even justification.On the contrary, it seems to be you who attaches a moral judgment to that criterion, ie that it is greedy and exploitative.
Well, I don't care about the number; I've outlined since the beginning that I think employees should take whatever they can get, you just dismissed that as nonsense and ignored my reasoning as to why.I actually didn't take a position on it at the outset, I simply asked a question to those who thought it was an unfair or insufficient wage. I was, and am, willing to be convinced that the wage should be higher if people have a decent argument as to what it should be and why.
There are other drivers, you know.Yea. My pay stub.
Their pay stubs too.There are other drivers, you know.
All around the country.
They are not. Practical skill cannot be taught by textbooks, and on the job training involves far more than most qualification programs do.
Also, neither immediately translate into better paying jobs the way formal qualification and education does.
In order to have skill and expertise translate into better wages, you'd have to work the same job, at an employer who actually valued those criteria, which as you know full well is absolutely not the case for most low end jobs because skill and quality of work are not important there.
Yet you still called it a "non response" when I brought it up, and dismissed it as nonsense.
So who should set wages, if it's not employees or employers?
No, I assess that labor and capital are in conflict, which you dismissed as "black and white thinking" without any further argument, evidence, or even justification.
If there is no conflict between capital and labor, and both are in principle working harmoniously towards the best possible outcome for both sides, then most wages are in principle fair, barring outside intervention. Would you agree with this assessment?
Well, I don't care about the number
Please elaborate.I didn't claim there was no conflict, ever at any time. I think it's too reductive and simplistic to see wages as purely a function of capitalist exploitation of workers. Reality is more complicated.
Sorry, I thought you were in search of a substantial debate on the issue of wages and employee-employer relations, instead of just prompting people for a nonsense number. I realize that this is my fault for failing to read and interpret your posts properly, my bad.Okay, well then you're not responding to the actual question I asked to which you responded that started this conversation. If you don't care about my question, then don't reply.
Sorry, I thought you were in search of a substantial debate on the issue of wages and employee-employer relations, instead of just prompting people for a nonsense number. I realize that this is my fault for failing to read and interpret your posts properly, my bad.
Please disregard my request for further clarification, I don't want to get this thread even more off topic and accidentially push it into the direction of a useful and enlightening discussion on a topic you apparently didn't want to talk about in the first place.
I was being sarcastic, but the sentiment is genuine. I honestly thought you'd be interested in debating the nature and dynamics of wages and their relationship to labor conflict in a capitalist economy, and am honestly disappointed to learn that that apparently wasn't even on your radar as far as desired topics in this thread went.Your dripping sarcasm is noted.
Here's where I stand: There is no such thing as a "fair" wage.The number isn't "nonsense," it's people's actual wages. That they actually use to pay their bills and feed their families. I'm not interested in discussing angels dancing on pinheads. Abstractions on philosophy in economics and politics need to translate to real world outcomes. So again, my question was to people who felt that truckers don't make a fair wage. If you're agnostic on that question, then it's not a question for you.
I was being sarcastic, but the sentiment is genuine. I honestly thought you'd be interested in debating the nature and dynamics of wages and their relationship to labor conflict in a capitalist economy, and am honestly disappointed to learn that that apparently wasn't even on your radar as far as desired topics in this thread went.
Here's where I stand: There is no such thing as a "fair" wage.
Wages are by definition the result of exploitation and appropriation;
I'm sorry I didn't give you the number you crave, maybe it's best we stopped talking for a while.
Your cited statistics are irrefutable.Their pay stubs too.
The only ones with that kind of money are specialized jobs or your out all the time with no home life anymore.