There is a god or there isn't a god

[chinu]

There is a god or there isn't a god

There's God who has created all the things that I see all around me

 

[blü 2]

I know nothing about real other than as a belief, because the word "real" is as the word "God". Both have no objective referent.

The word 'real' is an adjective, and you don't find adjectives lying around in reality. You find nouns instead.

However, you'll find many instantiations of the concept 'real' in the world external to your self. I suspect, on the evidence available to me, that you are real, very likely as a fellow human though there's a tiny chance you're a Turing machine.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The word 'real' is an adjective, and you don't find adjectives lying around in reality. You find nouns instead.

However, you'll find many instantiations of the concept 'real' in the world external to your self. I suspect, on the evidence available to me, that you are real, very likely as a fellow human though there's a tiny chance you're a Turing machine.

Since I can't see neither God nor real, I conclude they are both in the mind. I can see a black cat, but I can't see a real cat.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheist just a lack the belief.

No "just." Atheists lack the belief, period.

(As do monotheists for all gods but one, BTW)

Any position that doesn't involve belief in any gods is an atheist position. This can run the whole gamut from "what's a god?" to "I neither accept nor reject any gods as real" to "all gods are necessarily false."

 

[RestlessSoul]

Though Aphrodite and Apollo are appealing concepts, I've never needed a god in any real sense. And I guess everyone has had moments of wishing for a Dumbledore to appear and solve a problem with a murmured magic word.

I still don't know what a real God is, what a not-imaginary God could even be.

If you can envisage an imaginary God, but not a real one, have you considered trusting your imagination?

 

[RestlessSoul]

I know nothing about real other than as a belief, because the word "real" is as the word "God". Both have no objective referent.

If our inner reality appears confirmed by the external world to the extent we are able to function in it, then we can say we have at least reached a reasonable accommodation with reality. Perhaps that is as close to reality as we can ever hope to be, but anything less means we border on solipsism, don't you think?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

If our inner reality appears confirmed by the external world to the extent we are able to function in it, then we can say we have at least reached a reasonable accommodation with reality. Perhaps that is as much reality as we can ever hope for, but anything less means we border on solipsism, don't you think?

Well, yes. But all of the world is not external.
And then there is the problem of the metaphysical/ontological status of the world. As for solipsism, I am an epistemological solipsist, who believe that the external world is fair in regards to being real and not something else.

 

[blü 2]

Since I can't see neither God nor real, I conclude they are both in the mind. I can see a black cat, but I can't see a real cat.

That must be tough, all those black cats crossing in front of you every day and nothing you can do about it.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

That must be tough, all those black cats crossing in front of you every day and nothing you can do about it.

Yeah, deflect with a joke. Does that really solve anything?

 

[blü 2]

Yeah, deflect with a joke. Does that really solve anything?

You claim you're not real. That strikes me as a joke.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You claim you're not real. That strikes me as a joke.

No, I believe I am real. The joke is that you believe your assumptions are real to all humans as they are real to you. But you are not the master of humankind and neither am I. The difference is that you believe it.

You can't handle cognitive relativism, because what makes sense to you, must make sense to us all. That is your stick. My stick is to tease you about it

 

[RestlessSoul]

Well, yes. But all of the world is not external.
And then there is the problem of the metaphysical/ontological status of the world. As for solipsism, I am an epistemological solipsist, who believe that the external world is fair in regards to being real and not something else.

indeed, not all the world is external. The world is in me, and I am in the world; but I am not the world. The world is populated with other living beings, each with their own perspective, their own vision of our shared reality. I’m pretty sure of that much.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

indeed, not all the world is external. The world is in me, and I am in the world; but I am not the world. The world is populated with other living beings, each with their own perspective, their own vision of our shared reality. I’m pretty sure of that much.

The problem in regards to the shared reality is cognitive relativism or how biological evolution works for what matters in humans.

 

[RestlessSoul]

The problem in regards to the shared reality is cognitive relativism or how biological evolution works for what matters in humans.

Isn't this where faith comes in? I have faith that, at the very least, we can connect with each other through shared experiences.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Isn't this where faith comes in?

Yes, faith in the world as such and other humans. I have faith. I am an atheist, but I still have faith.

 

[Clara Tea]

Christians believe in a god due to faith, the bible, personal experience and passed on experiences/stories, etc.

Atheist just a lack the belief.

To have faith in most cases requires a personal experience.

Christians/religious people give your best personal experience of why you have belief/faith in a god.

Atheist/non-religious give your best personal experience of why you lack belief/faith in a god.

PS. This is key...."personal experience", not "lack of scientific evidence".

And go....

If we sit on Santa's lap at the mall, we have a personal experience that would help us believe in Santa. We could gain similar faith in other creatures (leprechauns, etc).

Should we believe in everything?

 

[firedragon]

Christians believe in a god due to faith, the bible, personal experience and passed on experiences/stories, etc.

Atheist just a lack the belief.

To have faith in most cases requires a personal experience.

Christians/religious people give your best personal experience of why you have belief/faith in a god.

Atheist/non-religious give your best personal experience of why you lack belief/faith in a god.

PS. This is key...."personal experience", not "lack of scientific evidence".

And go....

I think most atheists would respond with a "I have never experienced anything", and most theists would also respond with the same thing. As most atheists would if someone claims to have experienced something supernatural it would be either a psychological dysfunction or a lie, and as far as I know, most atheists would do the same. But these are anecdotal experiences on my side.

Its a very different question. Interesting to see responses.

One thing though. Asking for scientific evidence for a metaphysical matter is illogical. Its like a usually repeated manthra of missionaries. One has to admit that he or she is a materialist, naturalist or nihilist or whatever their position is and just leave it at that saying "I dont accept anything other than whatever is proven by scientific evidence". Thats all. But opening a question of scientific evidence for metaphysics is good for nothing.

Good topic. Cheers.

 

[viole]

There are more reasons than those listed for why people believe in God, but as for personal experience: I have seen His power and been overwhelmed by His majesty which communicated to me His traits and being, in addition to the natural knowledge of God all have (in my opinion). Simple as that.

Yes, exactly what my Muslim friend reported about Allah.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Lain]

Yes, exactly what my Muslim friend reported about Allah.

Ciao

- viole

May he be blessed then! What a great thing to have happen (in my opinion).

 

[viole]

May he be blessed then! What a great thing to have happen (in my opinion).

Yes, it is amazing, especially to atheists.

Ciao

- viole