Not really-- the disciples preached from the TaNaKhWouldn't Christians attribute the messiah to Jesus and thus make the question partly incoherent? https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/IsraelExperi...e_of_Messiah_in_Judaism_and_Christianity.aspx
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Not really-- the disciples preached from the TaNaKhWouldn't Christians attribute the messiah to Jesus and thus make the question partly incoherent? https://mfa.gov.il/MFA/IsraelExperi...e_of_Messiah_in_Judaism_and_Christianity.aspx
What if it happens the next day after one of us dies? What rotten luck to die just before!The work is never finished for all the people's of the world.
To Jews and Christians mostly but others are free to poke their noses in....
What is the Messiah meant to do, according to Tanakh?
No 'NT' quotes thanks.
I've tried this thread before, I'm bored, so I'm trying it again.
This is accurate for the Jewish perspective, and more accurate than the narrow view of the Christian perspective. Trom the Jewish perspective it is the progressivel tribal succession of the messiah savior 'enlightened one in the succession of Kings to restore the nation of Isreal and bring them back to obedience of Hebrews to their guidance of their scripture and salvation.
I go with the more universal perspective that purs the Messiah, Avator, enlightened one in all the religions of the world in the Progressive Revelation. If 'God guides and enlightens humanity through Revelation, God is a universal God for ALL of humanity, and NOT a tribal God or Savior of one religion or the other, or one sect of division of the many possible beliefs. To argue the perspective of any one religion, culture, tribe or division there of would be an unresolvable contradiction as to the nature of what One God the Source of all of our physical existence and ALL of humanity would Be if God is God.
All the major world religions are expecting a Messiah, a world redeemer, who will come in the End Times. Certain religious believers such as the Jews and Christians believe that this Messiah will meet their expectations and restore their religion to its former glory, and He will even vindicate their religion as being the one true religion. Obviously it is impossible that all the religions are right about what this Messiah will be like and what he will do, because these religions all have different expectations of this Messiah.To Jews and Christians mostly but others are free to poke their noses in....
What is the Messiah meant to do, according to Tanakh?
No 'NT' quotes thanks.
I've tried this thread before, I'm bored, so I'm trying it again.
Mine doesn'tAll the major world religions are expecting a Messiah, a world redeemer, who will come in the End Times. Certain religious believers such as the Jews and Christians believe that this Messiah will meet their expectations and restore their religion to its former glory, and He will even vindicate their religion as being the one true religion. Obviously it is impossible that all the religions are right about what this Messiah will be like and what he will do, because these religions all have different expectations of this Messiah.
Bible prophecies can be interpreted in many different ways, so they can have many meanings, so they can be made to mean what people want them to mean so that Messiah will be what they want Him to be.
Below are two websites that cover the prophecies of the major religions and what they believe the Messiah will be.
“In this page a links to other pages concentrating on prophecies contained in some of the major Religious and Spiritual traditions of the World. Also I have included some predictions of Nostradamus and there is an article on 2012 which is the special date when the Mayan calendar comes to an end. In each section I give some background to the prophecies from the respective World Religions and also discuss some of their social and political implications.”
Prophecies from World Religion and other sources
“Each of the world's major religions contains Messianic prophecies.
Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, the Zoroastrian religion and even the Native American religions all foretell the coming of a Promised One. Each of the Founders of these great religions either promised to personally return himself, to send another like himself or in some instances.... the Founder promised to do both.
Christians await the return of Christ and the coming of "another comforter." The Jewish scriptures foretell the coming of "another Prophet" like Moses and the return of Elijah from heaven. Many Moslems await the appearance of Mahdi and Meseeh. Krishna promised to personally return from age to age. Buddha said that he was not the first Buddha ever to appear and that another "supremely enlightened" Buddha was still yet to come. Zoroastrian prophecies foretell the coming of a "world-renovator." Native American prophecies foretell the coming of a great teacher from the east who will bring teachings which will restore the hoop of unity.
Each religion, in its own way, has foretold the coming of a great religion restoring, world uniting, peace bringing Messiah.””
Prophecy Fulfilled Webpage
I think the Jews have misinterpreted their scriptures because they are biased and they want the Messiah to be just for them, so that is what they interpret their scriptures to mean. The Christians did the same thing because they want the Messiah to be Jesus. This can be explained by human desires and I think it shows how they can lead to biases and errors in thinking.Mine doesn't
I just don't see why so many people discard what the Jews say. They were given this message but it seems like everyone decided they're wrong. I have no idea why people think the people who were given the scriptures in their own language and had been studying it for 1000 years before Christianity even existed don't get it. So it baffles me why people think they apparently manage to get it so wrong.
Why not just cut to the chase? Jews believe they are special and chosen and I consider that kind of exclusivity to be arrogant. They will try to use their scriptures to back them up, but all religious scriptures say the people that accept them are the ones who will be well with God, so that won't work to say any one group is chosen.I suspect it's because people don't like the idea that the messiah is mainly for Israel and they instead want a more universal message. IOW they're having the same problem I had with Judaism: "It's not for you."
I just explained why I cannot believe it could be true. I approach religion from a logic, not emotion, and I cannot see how a just and loving God would choose a certain group of people over everyone else. In their favor, at least Christians want everybody to be saved.But that doesn't mean it's not true.
He was supposed to be a King, or a Ruler, and bring peace. His powers to appear in the east and west.To Jews and Christians mostly but others are free to poke their noses in....
What is the Messiah meant to do, according to Tanakh?
No 'NT' quotes thanks.
I've tried this thread before, I'm bored, so I'm trying it again.
But I don't think He was supposed to be like an earthly king and ruler as the Jews and Christians believe, with a throne an all that.He was supposed to be a King, or a Ruler, and bring peace. His powers to appear in the east and west.
I just don't see why so many people discard what the Jews say. They were given this message but it seems like everyone decided they're wrong. I have no idea why people think the people who were given the scriptures in their own language and had been studying it for 1000 years before Christianity even existed don't get it. So it baffles me why people think they apparently manage to get it so wrong.
I suspect it's because people don't like the idea that the messiah is mainly for Israel and they instead want a more universal message. IOW they're having the same problem I had with Judaism: "It's not for you."
But that doesn't mean it's not true.
Rabbinic Judaism is the direct descent of Pharisaic Judaism, so I'm not sure where this innovation notion is from. There was never a Judaism that believed the Torah wasn't forever, that the Messiah is God as a man, a trinity, a 3 day death and resurrection or pretty much any Christian doctrine I can think of. Christianity is also an innovation. None of these things are in the Tanakh. And I'm not sure how Jews taking stuff directly from Tanakh is an innovation of some newfangled Judaism. Their messianic expectations have not changed.As for me I disregard what they say because Post-Temple Rabbinic Judaism is not the same religion Moses or Abraham had. I actually consider the religion of Jesus and Apostles to be the same [as that of Abraham, Moses, David, and those who followed them] and those who we call Jews today to be an innovation who do not understand the text they use in addition to it being corrupt in places. It's similar to how I disregard was Muslims say about my religion, has nothing to do with me taking from them then altering it. Not to mention the central figure in my religion said they were wrong in their interpretation so there is that aspect also.
Rabbinic Judaism is the direct descent of Pharisaic Judaism, so I'm not sure where this innovation notion is from. There was never a Judaism that believed the Torah wasn't forever, that the Messiah is God as a man, a trinity, a 3 day death and resurrection or pretty much any Christian doctrine I can think of. Christianity is also an innovation. None of these things are in the Tanakh. And I'm not sure how Jews taking stuff directly from Tanakh is an innovation of some newfangled Judaism. Their messianic expectations have not changed.
As for me I disregard what they say because Post-Temple Rabbinic Judaism is not the same religion Moses or Abraham had. I actually consider the religion of Jesus and Apostles to be the same [as that of Abraham, Moses, David, and those who followed them] and those who we call Jews today to be an innovation who do not understand the text they use in addition to it being corrupt in places. It's similar to how I disregard was Muslims say about my religion, has nothing to do with me taking from them then altering it. Not to mention the central figure in my religion said they were wrong in their interpretation so there is that aspect also.
Well, we believe He did not appear literally as a Ruler of the world.But I don't think He was supposed to be like an earthly king and ruler as the Jews and Christians believe, with a throne an all that.
Very doubtful, I would think.Well, we believe He did not appear literally as a Ruler of the world.
Maybe God promised that the Messiah actually becomes a Ruler, but was not fulfilled.
My interpretation of that is that it was not literally fulfilled. Of course it's only my opinion. What about the verse by Moses where He says:"Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted......
Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. " Baha'u'llah, Iqan
Can you tell me where that is or quote it?In Torah also, is a verse that God can change what He promised before.
Well, we believe He did not appear literally as a Ruler of the world.
Maybe God promised that the Messiah actually becomes a Ruler, but was not fulfilled.
Sometimes, prophecies are not fulfilled.
"Among the Prophets was Noah. For nine hundred and fifty years He prayerfully exhorted......
Long afterward, He several times promised victory to His companions and fixed the hour thereof. But when the hour struck, the divine promise was not fulfilled. This caused a few among the small number of His followers to turn away from Him, and to this testify the records of the best-known books. " Baha'u'llah, Iqan
In Torah also, is a verse that God can change what He promised before.
You should really find better things to do with your time.I'm bored
But does Christianity have a universal message? Christianity offers personal salvation for everyone, equally. It's universal in a metaphorical sense, but it's not actually about making the universe a better place. It's a get-out-of-jail free card when doomsday comes. Doomsday destroys the universe. All of creation going down the drain. It's not about making the universe a better place, it's about making sure you get a place when there's no universe left.and they instead want a more universal message.
It offers something or else it wouldn't be so popular, is my thinking. I've read that while atheism is on the rise in western countries and converts to Islam usually only last about 4 years in that faith, Christianity is growing elsewhere in the world and the converts tend to be pretty hardcore. It's probably a consequence of the Evangelical movement, but as far as I can tell, people must be getting something out of it. The message is certainly universal in the sense that it's not as exclusive as Judaism is (or seems to be) nor as hard to join, and actively recruits people from anywhere at any time. People aren't flocking to other faiths, unless you're in weird Anglophone countries, really.But does Christianity have a universal message? Christianity offers personal salvation for everyone, equally. It's universal in a metaphorical sense, but it's not actually about making the universe a better place. It's a get-out-of-jail free card when doomsday comes. Doomsday destroys the universe. All of creation going down the drain. It's not about making the universe a better place, it's about making sure you get a place when there's no universe left.
Frankly, I think the world was already in the process of moving towards monotheism when Christianity came along. A combination of luck and the fact that Christianity is many times over easier than Judaism got Christianity to win the day.