Christians and Jews Mostly: Messiah

[shunyadragon]

I think you misread what I wrote. I wrote that the Hebrew word גד might be transliterated as "god" or "gad" depending on how one thought it should be pronounced. Nothing about "bad" or "good", although I can see why one would misread that as such. There are similarities in the spelling. Anyway, I wrote that humorously.

OK

 

[PruePhillip]

The very human bad behavior of believers in all religions and belief systems.

As far as the Bible goes it is ancient tribal guidance of what is good and bad. In recent history it lacks guidance for what is good and bad for issues like slavery, women's social and legal rights. Also ancient scripture lacks the quidance of how to deal with those of different beliefs, such as the historic tribal conflict between Christianity, Judaism and Islam still apparent today.

BBC report
"Some 216,000 children - mostly boys - have been sexually abused by clergy in the French Catholic Church
since 1950, a damning new inquiry has found.
The head of the inquiry said there were at least 2,900-3,200 abusers, and accused the Church of showing a "cruel
indifference towards the victims".

A question - does this condemn Christianity?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

BBC report
"Some 216,000 children - mostly boys - have been sexually abused by clergy in the French Catholic Church
since 1950, a damning new inquiry has found.
The head of the inquiry said there were at least 2,900-3,200 abusers, and accused the Church of showing a "cruel
indifference towards the victims".

A question - does this condemn Christianity?

No. Statistically speaking, the percentage of predators among priests is no greater than society at large. And while the coverup is deplorable, similar incidents with the Boy Scouts, little league, school districts etc., show that covering things up tends to be the most common response in all groups.

 

[shunyadragon]

BBC report
"Some 216,000 children - mostly boys - have been sexually abused by clergy in the French Catholic Church
since 1950, a damning new inquiry has found.
The head of the inquiry said there were at least 2,900-3,200 abusers, and accused the Church of showing a "cruel
indifference towards the victims".

A question - does this condemn Christianity?

No intent to condemn Christianity, nor any other religion or belief system, but as far as 'good' just on par with everyone else, except they do no measure up to their claim of having a superior moral and ethical standard.

 

[Rival]

except they do no measure up to their claim of having a superior moral and ethical standard.

No-one does.

Doesn't mean their system can't still be superior in theory.

 

[shunyadragon]

No-one does.

Doesn't mean their system can't still be superior in theory.

A legitimate theory requires objective verifiable evidence to falsify a theory. Every other layman use of theory is based on biased subjective personal opinion. Any religion, belief system, and division there of can make this claim.

 

[Rival]

Any religion, belief system, and division there of can make this claim.

Yes, but what I'm saying is that just because people don't live up to their moral standards doesn't mean it can't be a superior moral standard philosophically. Of course it will be subjective.

 

[shunyadragon]

Yes, but what I'm saying is that just because people don't live up to their moral standards doesn't mean it can't be a superior moral standard philosophically. Of course it will be subjective.

No, the historical and the scriptural evidence is very clear, ancient tribal religions do not present moral and ethical standards that would not remotely measure up to humanist secular standards of today.

 

[Rival]

No, the historical and the scriptural evidence is very clear, ancient tribal religions do not present moral and ethical standards that would not remotely measure up to humanist secular standards of today.

A legitimate theory requires objective verifiable evidence to falsify a theory. Every other layman use of theory is based on biased subjective personal opinion. Any religion, belief system, and division there of can make this claim.

 

[shunyadragon]

I am not claiming any sort of theory, the historical factual evidence and limitations of the worldview of ancient scripture. These facts can be easily validated.

 

[PruePhillip]

No intent to condemn Christianity, nor any other religion or belief system, but as far as 'good' just on par with everyone else, except they do no measure up to their claim of having a superior moral and ethical standard.

Sure. I am no fan of the Roman Catholic Church. IMO its leaders have a lot to answer
for - and fidding with kids takes it to a whole new level of Phariseeism. But that isn't
Christianity.
Peter wasn't the 'first Pope', there is no trinity doctrine, Jesus never instituted any
Crusade, Mary isn't 'queen of heaven' no amount of indulgence payments is going to
buy your way into heaven and saying to 'kill them all and let God sort it out' is going
to put you in real condemnation.
Same too for most Jews in the Old Testament times - as the bible made abundantly
clear.
But you aren't to measure the bible against the various groups who claim it as their
own.

 

[PruePhillip]

No. Statistically speaking, the percentage of predators among priests is no greater than society at large. And while the coverup is deplorable, similar incidents with the Boy Scouts, little league, school districts etc., show that covering things up tends to be the most common response in all groups.

Funny story. This guy in the Australian army in Queensland told me this.
One day a group of soldiers was in a truck. They passed a strange scene,
a man was sodomizing a cow. The soldiers thought it so outrageous, and
funny - so they beat him up and took him into the town for the police to
question.
You can be a kid fiddler, but IMO a safer place to do this is in a church.
If you are caught in the police dept or the army etc you might get bashed,
or even shot.
But just the same - the scale of abuse is staggering.

 

[shunyadragon]

Sure. I am no fan of the Roman Catholic Church. IMO its leaders have a lot to answer
for - and fidding with kids takes it to a whole new level of Phariseeism. But that isn't
Christianity.
Peter wasn't the 'first Pope', there is no trinity doctrine, Jesus never instituted any
Crusade, Mary isn't 'queen of heaven' no amount of indulgence payments is going to
buy your way into heaven and saying to 'kill them all and let God sort it out' is going
to put you in real condemnation.
Same too for most Jews in the Old Testament times - as the bible made abundantly
clear.
But you aren't to measure the bible against the various groups who claim it as their
own.

The problem remains Christianity and many of the diverse conflicting versions claim the Bible as their 'only' own. Claims of the Bible being their own extends beyond what of what as 'good' many as reject science such as evolution and/or the billion year old earth and universe in their own standard of good.

The issue remains that claims to be the standard of what is 'good' fails in all ancient scripture

 

[PruePhillip]

The problem remains Christianity and many of the diverse conflicting versions claim the Bible as their 'only' own. Claims of the Bible being their own extends beyond what of what as 'good' many as reject science such as evolution and/or the billion year old earth and universe in their own standard of good.

The issue remains that claims to be the standard of what is 'good' fails in all ancient scripture

Well the ancient scripture I hold to is the Christian one. The Standard of Behavior
is one I couldn't hope to live up to.
So the issue isn't really about bad behavior of many, it's about YOUR OWN
BEHAVIOR. You can point to 200,000 abused kids in French Catholic churches
as a reason 'why' you don't follow Christianity, but that's a excuse - the Gospels
lay down a seriously tough standard of behavior.

Yes, I have issues with Christians who reject science - but I can see where they
are coming from. The uncaring universe we see today plays into society's nihilism
and narcissim.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Daniel 9:24...
“...to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity....”