Hate speech in the Quran and Bible. Should it be tolerated/accepted?

[DNB]

Every thread you have read of mine?

I love the good that Christians do and I have mentioned it many times

At the end of this thread:
I love my judge and prosecuting attorney TREMENDOUSLY!

My final words are "GOD IS GREAT"!

And I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being sincere!

ok, let me see if I understand you correctly. Is it that you are saying that the Bible has errors, and these are the passages that delineate God as a genocidal tyrant? Am I correct?
Or, are you saying that God, at times, can be a megalomaniacal despot, and it is this facet of His character that you dare to protest about Him?

 

[DNB]

I never said I hate the Father

Repeatedly I have said I love him.

I don't see what is so difficult for you to comprehend about: "You can love someone but still despise some of their cruel behaviors".

Plus,
I don't believe much of what the Bible attributes to God, is really accurate, so I don't believe that is who God is anyway. The God I know is kind, tolerant, merciful, and has a sense of humor.

Ok, you just answered my previous post. Maybe I haven't understood your position correctly then? Your are saying that God is the quintessence of love, and all the tyranny and oppression in the Bible that has been attributed to Him is either fallacious or maligned? That's fine, unfortunately that is not how your sentiments come off from the posts that I have read by you. Yes, I may have only seen a fraction of your threads, but was it impetuous on my part to read this particular OP and consider your views about God to be hateful a defiant? Do you expect that everyone that reads at least one of your threads, have read them all? I don't mean to be deferring the blame from myself, but I would consider your posts to be a little deficient in presenting your case a bit more comprehensively?

 

[DNB]

I should report you for proselytising but 1. I don't do that and 2. it's just too funny to see you defend the indefensible.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." - Not.
The bible can be used, and is used, to defend acts that an enlightened human of today thinks of as totally immoral. Ask the Westboro Baptist Church or some Pastor from the NIFB (or in some cases even the Pope).
There are good ideas in the bible (the Golden Rule) and there are bad (basically half of the 613 commandments). You can pick and choose the good if you want to act moral and you can pick and choose if you want to hate. That is not what I expect from a book fit for education.

Well, if you have construed anything that I have said on this post to be proselytizing, then it is you who should not be taken seriously, bro. I have merely been defending what spiderman has been denouncing. Can you not tell the difference, bro?

 

[DNB]

Excuse me, but didn't God permit the killing of all of Job's children? I believe there were 10 of them, yes?

Fine, Job had more children later -- but that does not make up for the cruelty of killing the first 10. What father says, "oh well, 10 kids gone, but i've got more so who cares? Forget about them."

Yes, you are correct, and that is very difficult to reconcile. Of course, in the realm of theological discussions, it is understood that God has the prerogative to create objects or beings for particular purposes. In other words, victims are destined to be so for a variety of reasons. Now, it's not for me to try and substantiate the atrocities that we witness in life, but I understand that I, myself, do not deserve the life that God has given me, nor the love that He has shown me. If He was to kill me today, I would deserve it. For, in short, i do not love my neighbour as myself, I feel that I am more important, and I do not love my Maker with all my heart, mind and soul. And these are just for starters....

 

[Spiderman]

ok, let me see if I understand you correctly. Is it that you are saying that the Bible has errors, and these are the passages that delineate God as a genocidal tyrant? Am I correct?
Or, are you saying that God, at times, can be a megalomaniacal despot, and it is this facet of His character that you dare to protest about Him?

I struggle with anger at the God sometimes displayed in the text.

The God I know is kind, scripture says God is love, and yet his behaviors in Scripture that are unkind or cruel, I lean towards believing those to be errors, for Scripture was written by men.

Scripture says, "love is kind, and God is love".

I reject what is not love, what is cruelty, what is the opposite of kindness.

I accept the God who from the cross , forgave those who crucified him, saying "father forgive them, for they know not what they do".

 

[Spiderman]

Ok, you just answered my previous post. Maybe I haven't understood your position correctly then? Your are saying that God is the quintessence of love, and all the tyranny and oppression in the Bible that has been attributed to Him is either fallacious or maligned? That's fine, unfortunately that is not how your sentiments come off from the posts that I have read by you. Yes, I may have only seen a fraction of your threads, but was it impetuous on my part to read this particular OP and consider your views about God to be hateful a defiant? Do you expect that everyone that reads at least one of your threads, have read them all? I don't mean to be deferring the blame from myself, but I would consider your posts to be a little deficient in presenting your case a bit more comprehensively?

Yes,
I apologize. I am deeply disturbed by much of Scripture , and it is deeply painful for me to see some of what Scripture has done to divide people, create judgemental condemning minds and hearts, and create bigotry that I have seen first hand in real life, and online.

I can see how reading this OP could lead a person to think I despise God. I love God.

I am sickened by bigotry and cruelty over Doctrines, heresy, and interpretations of an ancient text, where we can never know who is right , with so many contradictions.

Much of my OP was directed at Islam actually though. It is there that I become very sick, reading the Quran, the lifestyle of the Prophet, and what Islam has done to create violence, oppression, and agony in even our 21st century.

But I will accept correction since you are now willing to be reasonable. I focus too much on what is wrong with Scripture, rather than what is right.

I thank and praise God for his many graces, but I come from a broken home, grew up in institutions, and have lived my life in poverty, which has been worse than had my mother aborted me.

I see misery and a very sick world of chronic torture and heartbreak for countless people.

I have to do more to remind myself that there are a lot of happy people out there whom God has blessed with good lives and good marriages and nuclear families and such.

For some people, dreams come true.

 

[DNB]

I struggle with anger at the God sometimes displayed in the text.

The God I know is kind, scripture says God is love, and yet his behaviors in Scripture that are unkind or cruel, I lean towards believing those to be errors, for Scripture was written by men.

Scripture says, "love is kind, and God is love".

I reject what is not love, what is cruelty, what is the opposite of kindness.

I accept the God who from the cross , forgave those who crucified him, saying "father forgive them, for they know not what they do".

So, you only accept certain parts of Scripture, then? Do you have a formula or rule as to which verses are authentic or inspired, and as to which ones are not? Are you not simply going by your feelings, without trying to grasp the profundity of what is being said?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian Bible, commonly known as the Old & New Testaments, are, for all intents and purposes, the Word of God. Yes, there are countless difficult and even disturbing passages within the Scriptures (Lot allowing his daughters to be raped, Jephtah sacrificing his daughter, Lot sleeping with his daughters (unaware), Judah impregnating his daughter-in-law, Jacob's sons wanting to kill their brother Joseph). A lot of these without God intervening or overtly disapproving. But, I don't take the easy route and ascribe these to interpolations, emendations or falsifications. We have to deal with them, as they are coherently part of the stories and the Bible in its entirety. That is, they do not appear to be incongruent in the text.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Maybe, the problem is not that some Biblical text is hateful. Maybe the problem is the way in which some readers misinterpret Biblical text, or maybe some readers of our Holy Scriptures take some Bible verses out of context. Have you considered that possibility?

I book that demands family cast the first stones to kill a family member who went to worship a different god very much definitely has some problems.

 

[DNB]

Yes,
I apologize. I am deeply disturbed by much of Scripture , and it is deeply painful for me to see some of what Scripture has done to divide people, create judgemental condemning minds and hearts, and create bigotry that I have seen first hand in real life, and online.

I can see how reading this OP could lead a person to think I despise God. I love God.

I am sickened by bigotry and cruelty over Doctrines, heresy, and interpretations of an ancient text, where we can never know who is right , with so many contradictions.

Much of my OP was directed at Islam actually though. It is there that I become very sick, reading the Quran, the lifestyle of the Prophet, and what Islam has done to create violence, oppression, and agony in even our 21st century.

But I will accept correction since you are now willing to be reasonable. I focus too much on what is wrong with Scripture, rather than what is right.

I thank and praise God for his many graces, but I come from a broken home, grew up in institutions, and have lived my life in poverty, which has been worse than had my mother aborted me.

I see misery and a very sick world of chronic torture and heartbreak for countless people.

I have to do more to remind myself that there are a lot of happy people out there whom God has blessed with good lives and good marriages and nuclear families and such.

For some people, dreams come true.

Ok, Spiderman, I am very sorry to hear about your childhood, to the point that I can't even relate, being brought up in a middle-class home with many privileges. My contention though, with both you and SW (she appears much more hateful towards God than you), is that you're, like you said, dwelling on the negative, but more importantly, missing the point - don't store your treasures on earth, or consider it to be either the goal itself, or the means to any sort of happiness or justice. It is the devil's realm, and there will never be peace here on earth.. Thus, your anger seem to be misplaced. None of us deserve the life and love that God has given us, and yet, he has promised us all, if devout, eternal peace and happiness where all tears will be wiped away. Don't look for love or peace on earth. All the apostles suffered greatly during their lifetimes, and only one out of the 12, were not martyred (according to tradition).

Spiderman, it appears you have a saving faith. So, remember, no matter what happens on earth, you have the gift of eternal life which is beyond anyone's imagination what God has in store for those who love him. The saints are extremely precious in God's sight, so never say that you would've been better off aborted. ...oh boy, I almost forgot, that Kami stuff has got to go, Queen of heaven and all that. Jesus died for your sins, sent by the Father, and raised by Him to be exalted at His right-hand side, to judge all the living and the dead on the final day. That's all you need to know. .now, I'm going to get into trouble for proselytizing.

 

[Spiderman]

So, you only accept certain parts of Scripture, then? Do you have a formula or rule as to which verses are authentic or inspired, and as to which ones are not? Are you not simply going by your feelings, without trying to grasp the profundity of what is being said?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian Bible, commonly known as the Old & New Testaments, are, for all intents and purposes, the Word of God. Yes, there are countless difficult and even disturbing passages within the Scriptures (Lot allowing his daughters to be raped, Jephtah sacrificing his daughter, Lot sleeping with his daughters (unaware), Judah impregnating his daughter-in-law, Jacob's sons wanting to kill their brother Joseph). A lot of these without God intervening or overtly disapproving. But, I don't take the easy route and ascribe these to interpolations, emendations or falsifications. We have to deal with them, as they are coherently part of the stories and the Bible in its entirety. That is, they do not appear to be incongruent in the text.

I can't prove Scripture is the word of God , so I ask the Holy Spirit to guide my conscience and follow that.

 

[Spiderman]

So, you only accept certain parts of Scripture, then? Do you have a formula or rule as to which verses are authentic or inspired, and as to which ones are not? Are you not simply going by your feelings, without trying to grasp the profundity of what is being said?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian Bible, commonly known as the Old & New Testaments, are, for all intents and purposes, the Word of God. Yes, there are countless difficult and even disturbing passages within the Scriptures (Lot allowing his daughters to be raped, Jephtah sacrificing his daughter, Lot sleeping with his daughters (unaware), Judah impregnating his daughter-in-law, Jacob's sons wanting to kill their brother Joseph). A lot of these without God intervening or overtly disapproving. But, I don't take the easy route and ascribe these to interpolations, emendations or falsifications. We have to deal with them, as they are coherently part of the stories and the Bible in its entirety. That is, they do not appear to be incongruent in the text.

I try to follow the law of love, and love is kind. I try to do unto others as I would have them do unto me. I try to ease pain and suffering in the world where I can.

How my behavior will cause more suffering or ease suffering is a big basis for how I make choices.

I see much of Scripture as simply being outdated or some meaning lost over time or being in a very different culture.

Jesus said the law is summed up in loving God and loving neighbor.

 

[Spiderman]

Ok, Spiderman, I am very sorry to hear about your childhood, to the point that I can't even relate, being brought up in a middle-class home with many privileges. My contention though, with both you and SW (she appears much more hateful towards God than you), is that you're, like you said, dwelling on the negative, but more importantly, missing the point - don't store your treasures on earth, or consider it to be either the goal itself, or the means to any sort of happiness or justice. It is the devil's realm, and there will never be peace here on earth.. Thus, your anger seem to be misplaced. None of us deserve the life and love that God has given us, and yet, he has promised us all, if devout, eternal peace and happiness where all tears will be wiped away. Don't look for love or peace on earth. All the apostles suffered greatly during their lifetimes, and only one out of the 12, were not martyred (according to tradition).

Spiderman, it appears you have a saving faith. So, remember, no matter what happens on earth, you have the gift of eternal life which is beyond anyone's imagination what God has in store for those who love him. The saints are extremely precious in God's sight, so never say that you would've been better off aborted. ...oh boy, I almost forgot, that Kami stuff has got to go, Queen of heaven and all that. Jesus died for your sins, sent by the Father, and raised by Him to be exalted at His right-hand side, to judge all the living and the dead on the final day. That's all you need to know. .now, I'm going to get into trouble for proselytizing.

Jesus gave me many coincidences involving some women in Heaven helping me with their prayers. I call them "Capitol Hill Queens", before knowing there was a "Capitol Hill" in the state of Minnesota, or that I would live near it.

I felt Denise Naslund was my friend for over a year, she seemed to be communicating with me and bringing me closer to God and virtue, before I learned I live in the city of her killer's first victim, Elizabeth Perry. On the beginning of a memorial weekend, I found a fighting Seabees military jacket dated the year Elizabeth Perry (From my city) was murdered (1969). I grabbed it because Elizabeth was murdered memorial weekend. That memorial day I stumbled across two war memorials, where the names of over 1,000 dead soldiers are carved into granite. I wasn't looking for war memorials on memorial day. I found them by accident.

I made a pilgrimage to "Golden Valley Humane Society" where she used to work with her Father, both devout Christians, and laid my hand on a plaque memorial in her honor on the wall. I felt her spirit very present in a powerful way, and got a text about Saint Maria Gorretti getting stabbed to death by a pornography addict, shortly afterwards. No one ever sends me a text about someone getting murdered, and no one knew I was visiting a memorial to someone that day, who got stabbed to death like Maria Gorretti (By a pornography addict). (Lots of coincidences like that happen to me regularly)

Saint Maria Gorretti was very much in love with Jesus, and she prayed to Jesus that she could be in Heaven with her killer, as she bled to death from the stab wounds. While in prison, her killer saw her handing him a lily, and he had a change of heart and converted to Christianity. He developed a personal relationship with Jesus and Maria Gorretti. He wrote the Pope letters that helped get Maria Gorretti canonized.

The word Kami doesn't have to go. Japanese Christians call God Kami. Kami just means Spirit, but it is also the Japanese word for God.

Also, Scripture says "We are one body in Christ". When the Capitol Hill Queens died, they did not cease to be members of the body of Christ. Neither did Saint Maria Gorretti. Jesus was seen on Mount Tabor with Elijah and Moses. Samuel told Saul he would soon join him in "the world of the dead". When the poor man Lazarus died , he was taken to Abraham's bosom. Abraham was interacting with to rich man in hades.

The dead are still alive. It's very Biblical. In the book of Revelation, those slain and martyred for their faith are complaining to God and interceding for the earth and begging for vengeance.

The Capitol Hill Queens are simply females in Heaven who were the greatest gifts Jesus ever gave me to assist me in not being so miserable and angry , and to love and praise God more, is all. They also ask me to be humble and do deeds of charity. I couldn't see something demonic about that even if I tried my hardest!

 

[Shadow Wolf]

So, you only accept certain parts of Scripture, then? Do you have a formula or rule as to which verses are authentic or inspired, and as to which ones are not? Are you not simply going by your feelings, without trying to grasp the profundity of what is being said?
I believe that the Judeo-Christian Bible, commonly known as the Old & New Testaments, are, for all intents and purposes, the Word of God. Yes, there are countless difficult and even disturbing passages within the Scriptures (Lot allowing his daughters to be raped, Jephtah sacrificing his daughter, Lot sleeping with his daughters (unaware), Judah impregnating his daughter-in-law, Jacob's sons wanting to kill their brother Joseph). A lot of these without God intervening or overtly disapproving. But, I don't take the easy route and ascribe these to interpolations, emendations or falsifications. We have to deal with them, as they are coherently part of the stories and the Bible in its entirety. That is, they do not appear to be incongruent in the text.

Jehovah literally committed genocide against all non-aquatic life on earth, his extermination of life more thorough amd complete than what Hitler achieved.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

No. Neither abolition nor retention were "Christian Movements". They were simply movements. It is wrong to ascribe religious motivation simply because the people involved were nominally followers of a particular religion.

Why?

 

[Suave]

I book that demands family cast the first stones to kill a family member who went to worship a different god very much definitely has some problems.

That's just Old Testament law pertaining to the Tribe of Israel's High Priests, anybody else is not subject to God's law of having to be killed by blunt trauma force for having committed idolatry.

 

[Suave]

Jehovah literally committed genocide against all non-aquatic life on earth, his extermination of life more thorough amd complete than what Hitler achieved.

I'm guessing the story of the Biblical Flood is not intended to be an actual historical account of any catastrophic deluge occurring. Please let us consider the Biblical flood story as simply being a parabolic tale of a major transition both in the early psychological and spiritual life of an individual human being as well as a major transitioning in the early psychological and spiritual life of early humanity as a whole.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Yes, you are correct, and that is very difficult to reconcile. Of course, in the realm of theological discussions, it is understood that God has the prerogative to create objects or beings for particular purposes. In other words, victims are destined to be so for a variety of reasons. Now, it's not for me to try and substantiate the atrocities that we witness in life, but I understand that I, myself, do not deserve the life that God has given me, nor the love that He has shown me. If He was to kill me today, I would deserve it. For, in short, i do not love my neighbour as myself, I feel that I am more important, and I do not love my Maker with all my heart, mind and soul. And these are just for starters....

Another reason I could never be religious. I simply refuse to spend my life wallowing in guilt.

 

[Link]

You don't know that the Koran is without error!

You have judged and condemned my soul to eternal torture in hell more than once in the past week. I see the fruit the Koran is bearing in your mind and heart.

It is a complete turn off and will not win compassionate people to your Religion.

If I go to hell for opposing sadistic psychopathic cruelty, I suppose I will go to hell with other compassionate humane people with charity, mercy, and human decency.

I will be joining some very noble people in Hell. Do I really want to be in Heaven worshipping a sadistic, cruel, hateful bigot with people who bend the knee to him?

@stvdv , I think I know where we might meet each other some day.

Hates gonna hate, and haters will be in hell yes. God is the most severest in retribution in it's place and most compassionate in it's place, so see which place you want.

 

[Suave]

Another reason I could never be religious. I simply refuse to spend my life wallowing in guilt.

I'd consider Christians as having any personal flaws absolved by Faith, Grace and Our Lord's Salvation.

 

[Link]

God's light never existed. It has always been people claiming the candle is god's light.

How can he do that? The Quran was his final message and Muhammad his final messenger.
And I thought it was already supposed to be "perfect"?

You think you know everything about Quran when you know nothing. Mohammad (s) is the Final Nabi, and the Ulul-Amr (a) if no disputes occurred would have ruled all as kings (no need of Messengers) but if disputes occur, they need to revive the message and hence deliver clear explanations and messages which they did making them Messengers. If disputes occur, they won't be solved except through us coming to God and the Messenger of the time, and so disputes won't end till the Mahdi comes back.

Message is not Quran, it's Mohammad (s) Sunnah as far clear explanations go along with clear of Quran together, Nubuwa = Quran at all it's levels, not just it's words but it's levels at all ranks, for Angels to work with and some only known to Ahlulbayt (a), and still Quran is connected to God, and so no one fully knows Quran except God.

Message and Nubuwa are two different things, but related, and interlinked and their is overlap, but Nubuwa is revelation from God that is meant to be given to the people and maintained as scripture a long with trusted and taughts to Angels to help heal in all sorts of levels, worlds, and ways making Quran a magical book that works with healing power of Angels and the Guide of the time.

Sunnah is also healing and above the words of other humans, but some of it can be fabricated (short words not always can we tell are from or not from), and has to be accorded to Quran.

The 12th Imam will come back as a Messenger (Rasool).

And the term Mursaleen which gets translated as Messenger often but means sent ones in fact, includes both Anbiya and Rusul including the Rusul that are not Anbiya and Anbiya that are not Rusul and includes the Ulul-Amr in 4:59.

And for sure Ahlulbayt (a) have been sent to this world. Part of the sorcery of Iblis is to confuse all these concepts in people and in bad translations.

Translation of Quran != Quran.