Hate speech in the Quran and Bible. Should it be tolerated/accepted?

[Spiderman]

You're too angry to win this argument, your understanding of Scripture is too shallow. Ask Pharaoh who hardened who's heart. Or, ask yourself who hardened yours. ...there's more than one correct answer, if you understood God's sovereignty and man's autonomy...

Cruelty against creatures should make any charitable compassionate person angry. Torturing people for a month to death is wrong, torturing them forever is far FAR worse, and makes me indignant. Killing babies and pregnant women and children should bother me because I have compassion. Scripture sanctions that genocide as well as slavery.

Jesus also referred to an entire ethnic group as "Dogs". That's actually blatant racism.

That shouldn't bother me?

Perhaps the Bible has errors?

 

[DNB]

The way you judge people and how you speak in a condescending matter reflects a person who isn't very happy.

"Love is kind" is a Scripture verse. Scripture wasn't wrong about everything. i'm just saying it contains some errors is all. Relax.

I can see Scripture has given you a heavy bitter judgmental heart. It shows.

Now, you might say, "Spiderman is judging me". I'm simply pointing out that you insult people and you kind of **** on what other people hold as sacred. Happy people don't do that. They would offer charitable correction , not insult and degrading talk.

What I'm pointing out in you are actually negative qualities.

What you condemn me for is I'm simply asking people to be more kind and take a stand against blatant hatred and bigotry. You don't see me calling other people's beliefs putrid or insulting others as you do.

I love you! I forgive you!



Man-made putrid nonsense? The only Shinto Doctrine is simply "Belief in Spirits".

Oh, it's man-made? Can you tell me the name of the man who invented it or made it up then??

How do you know God didn't select women in Heaven to watch over me or object to me calling them "Queens". You don't know. So, why bash it?

The only angry person here is you and SW, and that is the catalyst behind my indignation. Your hatred and contempt has been exuded through every single thread that I have read of yours. You haven't once tempered your posts with declarations of God's transcendence and holiness, but your continuously shallow, naive and biased views of His alleged cruelty, just shows your mish-guidedness.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Pharaoh killed them, not God.

Pharoah isn't the one who ordered them to he killed, he isn't the one who took their lives. It was Jehovah who decided innocent children must die for the sins of another (showing again Jehovah is a liar who will punish a son for the sins of a father).

Like i said, Shinto is man-made putrid nonsense.

So is Christianity.

Of all the systems of religion that ever were invented, there is none more derogatory to the Almighty, more unedifying to man, more repugnant to reason, and more contradictory in itself, than this thing called Christianity.
-Thomas Paine

Heaven is an eternal reward,

What is rewarding about it? An eternity with an iron fisted dictator who is so self centered he demands us worship him and ask forgiveness for a rigged system amd spare us from an eternal punishment he himself created?
I'll pass.

You should know better, but your interpretation of Scripture is just skewed.

And yet still you can't explain why.

 

[Spiderman]

Grow up!

More personal attacks! You could offer charitable correction. Scripture says "Love is Kind". Is calling what another person holds as sacred "Putrid" a kind thing to say. Is that going to win you any converts?

What is especially ignorant about your "Putrid" remark, is that Shinto doesn't have a single Doctrine or Scripture that is incompatible with Christianity, and you already believe what the Shinto faith professes to be true, which is simply "Belief in the Kami".

You also haven't provided me with any evidence that Shinto is "Man-made" because there is no known founder of Shinto , and it is completely compatible with Christianity.

 

[DNB]

Cruelty against creatures should make any charitable compassionate person angry. Torturing people for a month to death is wrong, torturing them forever is far FAR worse, and makes me indignant. Killing babies and pregnant women and children should bother me because I have compassion. Scripture sanctions that genocide as well as slavery.

Jesus also referred to an entire ethnic group as "Dogs". That's actually blatant racism.

That shouldn't bother me?

Perhaps the Bible has errors?

Perhaps your comprehension has errors, due to your conflicted state of mind? How can you love the Father, and hate Him at the same time?
Don't answer, it's going to be another convoluted, contradicting train-wreck of a response.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The only angry person here is you and SW, and that is the catalyst behind my indignation. Your hatred and contempt has been exuded through every single thread that I have read of yours. You haven't once tempered your posts with declarations of God's transcendence and holiness, but your continuously shallow, naive and biased views of His alleged cruelty, just shows your mish-guidedness.

So, I'm angry and showing contempt because I won't promote or accept Christianity?
But yet you are the one who keeps using personal insults, calling others shallow, and making a big deal out of people have objections to the teachings of your religion.
Who is being angry and shallow?

 

[Spiderman]

The only angry person here is you and SW, and that is the catalyst behind my indignation. Your hatred and contempt has been exuded through every single thread that I have read of yours. You haven't once tempered your posts with declarations of God's transcendence and holiness, but your continuously shallow, naive and biased views of His alleged cruelty, just shows your mish-guidedness.

Every thread you have read of mine?

I love the good that Christians do and I have mentioned it many times

At the end of this thread:
I love my judge and prosecuting attorney TREMENDOUSLY!

My final words are "GOD IS GREAT"!

And I wasn't being sarcastic. I was being sincere!

 

[DNB]

More personal attacks! You could offer charitable correction. Scripture says "Love is Kind". Is calling what another person holds as sacred "Putrid" a kind thing to say. Is that going to win you any converts?

What is especially ignorant about your "Putrid" remark, is that Shinto doesn't have a single Doctrine or Scripture that is incompatible with Christianity, and you already believe what the Shinto faith professes to be true, which is simply "Belief in the Kami".

You also haven't provided me with any evidence that Shinto is "Man-made" because there is no known founder of Shinto , and it is completely compatible with Christianity.

Just read your Bible where it all originated from, and leave it at that - especially, as you wrongly state, that there's no difference.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

More personal attacks! You could offer charitable correction. Scripture says "Love is Kind". Is calling what another person holds as sacred "Putrid" a kind thing to say. Is that going to win you any converts?

What is especially ignorant about your "Putrid" remark, is that Shinto doesn't have a single Doctrine or Scripture that is incompatible with Christianity, and you already believe what the Shinto faith professes to be true, which is simply "Belief in the Kami".

You also haven't provided me with any evidence that Shinto is "Man-made" because there is no known founder of Shinto , and it is completely compatible with Christianity.

I am often reminded of Matthew 7:1-5 when interacting with him.

 

[Spiderman]

Perhaps your comprehension has errors, due to your conflicted state of mind? How can you love the Father, and hate Him at the same time?
Don't answer, it's going to be another convoluted, contradicting train-wreck of a response.

I never said I hate the Father

Repeatedly I have said I love him.

I don't see what is so difficult for you to comprehend about: "You can love someone but still despise some of their cruel behaviors".

Plus,
I don't believe much of what the Bible attributes to God, is really accurate, so I don't believe that is who God is anyway. The God I know is kind, tolerant, merciful, and has a sense of humor.

 

[Heyo]

Perhaps your comprehension has errors, due to your conflicted state of mind? How can you love the Father, and hate Him at the same time?
Don't answer, it's going to be another convoluted, contradicting train-wreck of a response.

I should report you for proselytising but 1. I don't do that and 2. it's just too funny to see you defend the indefensible.
"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work." - Not.
The bible can be used, and is used, to defend acts that an enlightened human of today thinks of as totally immoral. Ask the Westboro Baptist Church or some Pastor from the NIFB (or in some cases even the Pope).
There are good ideas in the bible (the Golden Rule) and there are bad (basically half of the 613 commandments). You can pick and choose the good if you want to act moral and you can pick and choose if you want to hate. That is not what I expect from a book fit for education.

 

[stvdv]

If we censor one book, what's to stop us from censoring anything we don't like?

Im saying speak up against and point out what is poisoning minds and stirring up hateful regimes and groups!

I'm not talking about censorship of books.

Most people on RF (not me) have no problem with censorship when it comes to vaccines and c19, seems to me it's better to censor such violent Scriptures instead

Why?
So many wars, and killings, and all kids who suffer emotionally because of these religions

Better not be hypocritical. If you are okay to censor 1 then don't object to another

 

[Suave]

Christianity , like Islam, are very bigoted Religions that display/portray the epitome of hatred for infidels/heretics/pagans/unbelievers etc. (At least , total hatred for them if they die in that state without converting). You don't torture people forever and ever, unless you severely hate them.

It's why I left Christianity. I saw the bigotry and hate constantly. Just go to a Christian website and tell them you pray to the "Queens of Heaven", and see what some of the responses are, about the Kami I cherish being Demons.

Look at all the Biblical verses where God justifies complete genocide against people based on ethnicity or different Religious beliefs.

It's just wrong and goes against my conscience!

Threatening to torture people for ever, most of the world even, is worse than any form of hate speech, and it is very intrinsic to the nature and essence of Christianity.

To what extent should good people who don't like hatred and bigotry, take a stand against the hate-speech and bigotry in the Bible and Quran?

A lot of people are unaware of it, until it is brought to their attention. Some of the gruesome tortures amputations of limbs, crucifixion, and mutilations in the Quran and burning of infidels are so bad, it fills me with darkness to read them.

If you want the quotes and verses, I can provide them, or you can Google it.

I consider Muhammad and his daughter Fatima , peace be upon them, to be my close friends, but I can't object more to some of what is attributed to the Prophet, and his violent aggressive lifestyle, where he personally decapitated people and destroyed everything sacred to Polytheists, repeatedly condemning them to eternal torture in Quranic verses, destroying their shrines that are sacred to them, robbing people of basic liberties, and beyond.

Saudi Arabia, the Capitol of Islam, is run by an extremely bigoted regime where you won't find a single synagogue, Church, or Polytheist temple. It's forbidden and outlawed.

Jewish (as well as Christian and other non-Muslim) religious services are prohibited from being held in Saudi Arabia. That is total tyranny and bigotry!

I believe the Prophet was an orphan with a tough life who had nobody, and did indeed love God, and I love him, I just disagree with some of his behaviors.

I have met many orphans growing up and as an adult in jails, institutions, and ghettos, and they can be very violent angry people compared to those who had parents who nurtured, cared for, and gave them a healthy environment , with good role models.

But should we really be tolerant of pure hatred, bigotry, and hate-speech in the Bible and Quranic text??

The only thing necessary for hatred and bigotry to triumph in our world is for good people to remain silent, passive , and do nothing. Is that right or wrong?

In the poll, please choose the answer that you lean most towards.

Maybe, the problem is not that some Biblical text is hateful. Maybe the problem is the way in which some readers misinterpret Biblical text, or maybe some readers of our Holy Scriptures take some Bible verses out of context. Have you considered that possibility?

 

[stvdv]

But should we really be tolerant of pure hatred, bigotry, and hate-speech in the Bible and Quranic text??

100% sure we should NOT

The only thing necessary for hatred and bigotry to triumph in our world is for good people to remain silent, passive , and do nothing. Is that right or wrong?

PERFECTLY SAID

My Master incarnated, and one reason was to point out the errors in Scriptures, and I'm glad He did. What use are 'sick' Scriptures

Your description and examples are clear and those verses are not healthy stuff, esp. for young and innocents minds which get polluted at such an early age?

Any decent psychiatrist would agree such verses are too sick for young minds (but even not healthy for older minds). It's the older minds that kill, abuse, rape because of being brainwashed with such verses

In the poll, please choose the answer that you lean most towards.

Easy choice

 

[stvdv]

Im saying speak up against and point out what is poisoning minds and stirring up hateful regimes and groups!

I'm not talking about censorship of books.

I wish people censored such Scriptures

Saints have said "Television = Tele Poison"

How much more poisonous are the verses you shared on scale 1 to 10?

I rather tear out the whole page then read 1 such verse. What use is it for me?

 

[Clara Tea]

Christianity , like Islam, are very bigoted Religions that display/portray the epitome of hatred for infidels/heretics/pagans/unbelievers etc. (At least , total hatred for them if they die in that state without converting). You don't torture people forever and ever, unless you severely hate them.

It's why I left Christianity. I saw the bigotry and hate constantly. Just go to a Christian website and tell them you pray to the "Queens of Heaven", and see what some of the responses are, about the Kami I cherish being Demons.

Look at all the Biblical verses where God justifies complete genocide against people based on ethnicity or different Religious beliefs.

It's just wrong and goes against my conscience!

Threatening to torture people for ever, most of the world even, is worse than any form of hate speech, and it is very intrinsic to the nature and essence of Christianity.

To what extent should good people who don't like hatred and bigotry, take a stand against the hate-speech and bigotry in the Bible and Quran?

A lot of people are unaware of it, until it is brought to their attention. Some of the gruesome tortures amputations of limbs, crucifixion, and mutilations in the Quran and burning of infidels are so bad, it fills me with darkness to read them.

If you want the quotes and verses, I can provide them, or you can Google it.

I consider Muhammad and his daughter Fatima , peace be upon them, to be my close friends, but I can't object more to some of what is attributed to the Prophet, and his violent aggressive lifestyle, where he personally decapitated people and destroyed everything sacred to Polytheists, repeatedly condemning them to eternal torture in Quranic verses, destroying their shrines that are sacred to them, robbing people of basic liberties, and beyond.

Saudi Arabia, the Capitol of Islam, is run by an extremely bigoted regime where you won't find a single synagogue, Church, or Polytheist temple. It's forbidden and outlawed.

Jewish (as well as Christian and other non-Muslim) religious services are prohibited from being held in Saudi Arabia. That is total tyranny and bigotry!

I believe the Prophet was an orphan with a tough life who had nobody, and did indeed love God, and I love him, I just disagree with some of his behaviors.

I have met many orphans growing up and as an adult in jails, institutions, and ghettos, and they can be very violent angry people compared to those who had parents who nurtured, cared for, and gave them a healthy environment , with good role models.

But should we really be tolerant of pure hatred, bigotry, and hate-speech in the Bible and Quranic text??

The only thing necessary for hatred and bigotry to triumph in our world is for good people to remain silent, passive , and do nothing. Is that right or wrong?

In the poll, please choose the answer that you lean most towards.

It's easy to tell a human that they are wrong, but difficult to tell a God. God's know the future, and know that certain races will attack. Hence, this isn't bigotry, it is like picking up a newspaper of tomorrow's news.

Are we more informed than God? Are we smarter than God? Did we create the entire universe, including the intricacies (like making an eye function, with blood supplies, nerve endings, etc)?

Maybe it would be better to start our own religions? We could make religions that don't make wars. But, I thought that Christianity was one such religion (thou shalt not kill....turn the other cheek.....etc)? Maybe it isn't just the way the religions are written, maybe it is also the way that we practice the religions? We turn a blind eye to war, poverty, environmental destruction, etc.

Maybe God's test of Abraham (asking him to murder his own son) was not a test of faith, but a test of goodness. That is, maybe to pass that test, Abraham would have had to flatly refuse? In the face of God, with God watching his every move, perhaps he was supposed to say no (to prove that he was a good person, and therefore worthy of getting into heaven)?

I would much rather be in a heaven with truly good people rather than ones who blindly follow power (like the power of Satan).

Perhaps, then, the gory past of the Muslim religion is about not being bad (and following orders of the powerful). Perhaps the real test is to refuse to chop off hands, refuse to kill infidels, and refuse to be cruel?

 

[Clara Tea]

I've been talking about this topic for a long time. The Bible, in my view, is not just "one book." (Nor is the Qur'an, of course, nor other scripture.) It (and they) occupy a different place in the minds of believers.

I've long had a very real, very serious dislike for apologists -- such as William Lane Craig -- who actually go to a great deal of trouble to explain why the genocide of the Canaanites was "right." I've even argued with other Christians (there are a couple here in RF) who have argued that the killing of infants was right because "they would have grown up to be just like their parents -- totally evil." This, of course, is purest nonsense -- nurture plays as much role in how children turn out as nature does.

Even the teachings about hell, in my view, lead the faithful into error. I remember some years ago watching a TV special with Christiane Amanpour about fundamentalism in the US, in which she interviewed a young girl of about 8 or 9. When asked what will happen to the non-Christian kids in her school, she answers with perfect composure and no sense of irony, "they go to hell."

I can tell you I found that chilling.

Maybe God's test is "will you attack the Canaanites" even if you have to defy all-powerful and all-knowing God to do it? That is, maybe it is a test of goodness, rather than being a test of sucking up to power?

 

[Clara Tea]

I wish people censored such Scriptures

Saints have said "Television = Tele Poison"

How much more poisonous are the verses you shared on scale 1 to 10?

I rather tear out the whole page then read 1 such verse. What use is it for me?

I find myself changing channels when I see murder shows. We are what we put inside of us (food, clean ideas, peaceful ideas).

Is it possible that there are parts of the bible that are poison? Or, maybe the bible can be poison in the wrong hands. For example, many preachers of the Religious Right advocate the war in Iraq, and claim that praying to Jesus will help us win that war (kill more effectively?).

 

[Clara Tea]

You said Abrahamic texts, but THEN when I asked for you to give an example, you created an ENTIRE LONG POST filled with things you didn't like about the Bible. You did not mention a single example from the Quran. THAT is what I'm pointing out. So don't think you can suddenly shift the goalposts and think that you have answered my objection.

Jews have been so abused (even tortured to death by Hitler), and Hitler's hate lingers on long past his ugly life. So, I always stand up for Jews, their beliefs, and the goodness that they stand for. However, Spiderman meant no disrespect. He merely pointed out various Abrahamic religions (including Muslim and Jewish) that have harsh passages. These are the things that turn him off of the religions.

I have commented, in other areas of this string, that the orders to be harsh (for example killing Caananites) might have been examples of God testing goodness, rather than actually suggesting that they kill (which was banned by their bibles...."thou shalt not kill)." The test might be "will you follow the orders of a great and powerful God who is all knowing and even knows the future, or will you use your own judgement about what is good?" It seems to me that heaven is reserved for the good, not the obsequious (boot lickers). So, when I go to heaven, I want to make sure that I am surrounded by good people, not cutthroats who would slice me as soon as look at me.

 

[KWED]

If we censor one book, what's to stop us from censoring anything we don't like?

It is already illegal to publish certain things, like incitement to violence. However, some religious texts appear to get a free pass.