Natural immunity appears to be stronger than immunity from vaccinations:

[ElishaElijah]

LOL! And you lost again. Of course you were wrong. You misinterpreted the change. The vaccines were vaccines under the older definition too. Read my post explaining your error to you.

You are probably relying on right wing wacko sites. Try to go more mainstream. Vet your sources with Media Bias Factcheck. That should help.

No vaccine has ever been 100% effective. Vaccines increase immunity and protection. A lot. An occasional virus still slips through.

Do you understand what an r factor is and why it is so important?

Well you would think we would be done with Covid by now but not the case because the vaccines aren’t very good in the long run.
More Breakthrough Cases of COVID Ending in Hospitalization or Death - The Vaccine Reaction

 

[ElishaElijah]

By providing a reliable source you can show that you are correct. Or it could backfire. You may have misinterpreted an article that you read. It happens quite often.

Probably according to you Israel's COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases Exceed 50%

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well you would think we would be done with Covid by now but not the case because the vaccines aren’t very good in the long run.
More Breakthrough Cases of COVID Ending in Hospitalization or Death - The Vaccine Reaction

That has all of the hallmarks of a conspiracy site. See if you can find a valid source. And even that one has to admit that the illnesses of vaccinated people is rare. If all you can find are sites published by loons you as much as admit that you are wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Probably according to you Israel's COVID-19 Vaccine Breakthrough Cases Exceed 50%

Try again. Please do not use lying sites. They distort the statistics.

I think that you may not be able to understand mathematics at all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Always vet your sources. The National Vaccine Information Center is a conspiracy site:

National Vaccine Information Center

It does you no good in a debate to link to sources written by loons. It only makes your argument look weaker.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Always vet your sources. The National Vaccine Information Center is a conspiracy site:

National Vaccine Information Center

It does you no good in a debate to link to sources written by loons. It only makes your argument look weaker.

You have a problem with the information or just the source? People are calling Frontline Doctors who have stellar careers loons now because they don’t agree with the vaccine only approach and have had success with early treatments so no I don’t listen to the supposed experts because they aren’t telling the truth like Fauci.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This should have a warning of do not try this at home. Naturally acquired immunity appears to be stronger than immunity from vaccinations in a recent study:

AAAS

"The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19."

And even better news for me at least. If one has had Covid and gets a vaccination one's protection appears to be even better:

"The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. "

Okay, my vaccination was Moderna, but it too was an mRNA vaccine.

Of course it is. I wish more people would recognize natural immunity as the best kind there is.

I do understand however it's a gamble but I do think people who do have natural immunity would be regarded as being fully vaccinated and not downplayed in lieu of big pharma.

The whole point is antibodies. A vaccine will not produce a super antibody in comparison to antibodies already in present in natural immunity.

Nature does a far better job imo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You have a problem with the information or just the source? People are calling Frontline Doctors who have stellar careers loons now because they don’t agree with the vaccine only approach and have had success with early treatments so no I don’t listen to the supposed experts because they aren’t telling the truth like Fauci.

The first source was garbage. The second one appeared to be incomplete. Your first one is so bad it effectively refutes you. But let's go over the claims of the second one, which were as I said incomplete. Here is a better source:

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases. Here's Why

2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine's waning protection.
It was a perfect storm: The vaccine's waning protection came around the same time the more infectious delta variant arrived in Israel this summer. Delta accounts for nearly all infections in Israel today.

"The most influential event was so many people who went abroad in the summer — vacations — and brought the delta variant very, very quickly to Israel," said Siegal Sadetzki, a former public health director in Israel's Health Ministry.

New variations are a problem with any vaccine. That is why we need annual flu shots. The disease evolves every year. The flu has a well developed cycle. If we can avoid that with Covid wee might get rid of it.. So that is the first issue.

3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps.
The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

Okay, in other words the vaccine still works. One is at least nine times more likely to get seriously ill if one is unvaccinated. That means that even if it does not prevent one from getting the disease it still offers very strong protection.

Lastly immunity drops over time from both natural causes and vaccines. That is why a booster may be needed:

6. Booster shots offer more protection — if you are one of the world's lucky few to get them.
Israel is the first country to offer a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine in a nationwide booster campaign. Preliminary research in Israel suggests booster shots significantly increase protection against the coronavirus a week after a person receives the third dose.

The evidence still says that the vaccine works. We may need to get booster shots and they may need to develop new versions if people keep refusing to get them and the disease keeps evolving.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course it is. I wish more people would recognize natural immunity as the best kind there is.

I do understand however it's a gamble but I do think people who do have natural immunity would be regarded as being fully vaccinated and not downplayed in lieu of big pharma.

The whole point is antibodies. A vaccine will not produce a super antibody in comparison to antibodies already in present in natural immunity.

Nature does a far better job imo.

On that I do agree. If one had a clear medical record that one had the disease and recovered that should be as acceptable as getting the vaccination. The problem is that one would need to be willing and able to provide that information. I might be able to dig up mine. I am not positive. Mine was done at where I worked at the time. It was not done in a doctor's office. Many people have had it , but had no need to go to a doctor. They would be out of luck. They would still need to get vaccinated to prove immunity.

By the way, why the reluctance? There are only woo sites that oppose the vaccination.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The first source was garbage. The second one appeared to be incomplete. Your first one is so bad it effectively refutes you. But let's go over the claims of the second one, which were as I said incomplete. Here is a better source:

Highly Vaccinated Israel Is Seeing A Dramatic Surge In New COVID Cases. Here's Why

2. The delta variant broke through the vaccine's waning protection.
It was a perfect storm: The vaccine's waning protection came around the same time the more infectious delta variant arrived in Israel this summer. Delta accounts for nearly all infections in Israel today.

"The most influential event was so many people who went abroad in the summer — vacations — and brought the delta variant very, very quickly to Israel," said Siegal Sadetzki, a former public health director in Israel's Health Ministry.

New variations are a problem with any vaccine. That is why we need annual flu shots. The disease evolves every year. The flu has a well developed cycle. If we can avoid that with Covid wee might get rid of it.. So that is the first issue.

3. If you get infected, being vaccinated helps.
The good news is that among Israel's serious infections on Thursday of this week, according to Health Ministry data, the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people over age 60 (178.7 per 100,000) was nine times more than the rate among fully vaccinated people of the same age category, and the rate of serious cases among unvaccinated people in the under-60 crowd (3.2 per 100,000) was a little more than double the rate among vaccinated people in that age bracket.

Okay, in other words the vaccine still works. One is at least nine times more likely to get seriously ill if one is unvaccinated. That means that even if it does not prevent one from getting the disease it still offers very strong protection.

Lastly immunity drops over time from both natural causes and vaccines. That is why a booster may be needed:

6. Booster shots offer more protection — if you are one of the world's lucky few to get them.
Israel is the first country to offer a third shot of the Pfizer vaccine in a nationwide booster campaign. Preliminary research in Israel suggests booster shots significantly increase protection against the coronavirus a week after a person receives the third dose.

The evidence still says that the vaccine works. We may need to get booster shots and they may need to develop new versions if people keep refusing to get them and the disease keeps evolving.

You just sited the weakness of vaccines and endless booster shots needed which is how it’s always been with the flu.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You just sited the weakness of vaccines and endless booster shots needed which is how it’s always been with the flu.

You are not paying attention once again. It need not be that way. If enough people get vaccinated worldwide this could go the route of other diseases that were defeated by vaccinations.

I cannot understand how people that claim to be Christians can ignore Jesus's number one commandment.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You have a problem with the information or just the source? People are calling Frontline Doctors who have stellar careers loons now because they don’t agree with the vaccine only approach and have had success with early treatments so no I don’t listen to the supposed experts because they aren’t telling the truth like Fauci.

It's a reason why I go to independent sources by fully credentialed health professionals and physicians.

They are not controlled by politically motivated juggernauts and are less prone to minuplations associated with political agendas and special interests.

Places like the American Association of Physicians and Surgeons.

 

[anna.]

Of course it is. I wish more people would recognize natural immunity as the best kind there is.

I do understand however it's a gamble but I do think people who do have natural immunity would be regarded as being fully vaccinated and not downplayed in lieu of big pharma.

The whole point is antibodies. A vaccine will not produce a super antibody in comparison to antibodies already in present in natural immunity.

Nature does a far better job imo.

Rita Wilson and her husband Tom Hanks were two of the first high-visibility Covid patients in March 2020. Ten months later, Wilson said in an interview that recent test results indicated she had no more antibodies.

 

[Revoltingest]

More complexity...
Researchers Say Some People Have Developed 'Superhuman Immunity' Against COVID-19
Excerpted....
Studies show both hybrid immunity and superhuman immunity are ways in which our bodies may have extra fighting power against COVID-19.

Experts say they’ve heard the terms used interchangeably, but they’re a little bit different.

Hybrid immunity, is when someone has had COVID-19 and the vaccine.

It provides people with antibodies from both.

Superhuman immunity starts off the same way, but that some people with particular genetics can develop even more immunity.

“There are some of us that have this super ability to be able to recover from infections, COVID being one of them, a little better than the general population,” said Archana Narayan, and Immunologist with North Texas Allergy & Asthma Associates.

Experts say it’s a rare phenomenon.

“It’s a descriptive term for an individual to generate very high amounts of neutralizing antibodies,” Dr. Mohanakrishnan Sathyamoorthy, Chair of Internal Medicine, TCU and UNTHSC.

Studies show that some folks may have hit the genetic jackpot, meaning their bodies can develop very high levels antibodies that neutralize the virus.

They are also capable of fighting off present and future variants of COVID-19.

They say there’s no specific clinical test you can take to determine if someone has super human immunity, other than a regular antibody test to assess one’s general immunity, if recommended by a doctor.

Other than that, they say the best bet is to get the COVID-19 vaccine.

“If you’ve been infected then you can take comfort in knowing on top of that infection, you can boost your immune response with a vaccine. You can create a level of immune response that’s remarkable,” Dr. Mohanakrishnan said.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

This should have a warning of do not try this at home. Naturally acquired immunity appears to be stronger than immunity from vaccinations in a recent study:

AAAS

"The natural immune protection that develops after a SARS-CoV-2 infection offers considerably more of a shield against the Delta variant of the pandemic coronavirus than two doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, according to a large Israeli study that some scientists wish came with a “Don’t try this at home” label. The newly released data show people who once had a SARS-CoV-2 infection were much less likely than never-infected, vaccinated people to get Delta, develop symptoms from it, or become hospitalized with serious COVID-19."

And even better news for me at least. If one has had Covid and gets a vaccination one's protection appears to be even better:

"The researchers also found that people who had SARS-CoV-2 previously and received one dose of the Pfizer-BioNTech messenger RNA (mRNA) vaccine were more highly protected against reinfection than those who once had the virus and were still unvaccinated. "

Okay, my vaccination was Moderna, but it too was an mRNA vaccine.

Sounds great, assuming, yaknow, you survive the virus without death or debilitation.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sounds great, assuming, yaknow, you survive the virus without death or debilitation.

Most people do. It is the elderly that have a very difficult time with this virus. I survived it without too much trouble. But a coworker of mine that caught it the same time that I got it did not survive. I would not voluntarily get the disease. I still got the vaccine because I was fairly sure that the result would be a higher level of immunity.

I caught the virus before there was a vaccine. I had to wait at least three months after I came down with Covid. That is the SOP if someone gets the disease right now. Vaccination is still a good idea, but wait first. Like I said, my example needs a "don't try this a home" sticker.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

In the past he has not known how to tell a valid website from an invalid one, or if the source he chose is telling the whole story. I tried to explain to him how to search without biased terminology. I do not think that it worked.

So I see.

 

[ElishaElijah]

The evidence still says that the vaccine works. We may need to get booster shots and they may need to develop new versions if people keep refusing to get them and the disease keeps evolving.

You have the data to prove that if 100% of the people were vaccinated we would eradicate Covid and not need booster shots?

 

[Revoltingest]

Influenza is always changing and why it’s a fallacy to believe Covid will be eradicated by vaccines IMO and has nothing to do with unvaccinated people.

Rarely is a disease ever eradicated. They typically become
endemic rather than pandemic, eg, bubonic plague (which is
still with us....just not a big problem). Vaccination hurries the
process along with less death & infirmity than the natural way.
"Eradication" is a straw man argument, ie, an impossible &
irrelevant goal for anti-vaxers to argue against.