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Abolition of Alcohol

Recreational Alcohol consumption Abolished?

  • The harm of alcohol consumption is not applicable

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    40

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
That was most likely too passionate.

Those thoughts were all about a specific work party where I got volunteered, I accepted as long as it did not go past midnight, as I still had to work 6am again the next morning.

By 10pm all but about 10 people remained, and as alcohol was provided they all had way too much and the conversation was very loud and utter nonsense. As it approached midnight I tried to get all on the bus, but I only got a couple home, at 1am to 2am I said if you do not come now, you will have to walk home, they did not come.

So I got in trouble from work because I left them there, even though I started work 4 hours later after little sleep.

They enjoyed themselves though and that is what I see alcohol is all about, feeding the self, why else would you not give it up for the good of all?

Regards Tony

Tony, most of us have horror stories related to booze. A friend of mind drove his car in front of a train, at age 19. Killed instantly. My daughter was raped at a party, too drunk to know the difference. That same daughter came home one night to fetch us, as another kid had been left to die in a frozen snowbank. At 2 AM, my wife and I rushed over there to rescue her and take her home. Her mother got all mad at us for suggesting she was a poor parent, rather than thanking us for saving her daughter's life.

Nobody here is saying booze doesn't cause problems. But neither does prohibition, or preaching at others about it. If educated people continue to get drunk, that's on them. There are no easy solutions. Here, we have a nasty street drug problem with Fentanyl, and many youth overdose on the street. Some governments ban safe injection sites, and more people die. There is no easy solution to all of these things. Booze is safer then fentanyl, and marijuana is safer than booze. Sobriety is safer than any of them. But we have 7 billion folks on the planet, and the reality is you can only truly take care of one of them to the best of your ability.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
OK, so we have establish it is a free will choice and that it can not be prohibited.

So what will it take to stop its abuse, for 1000 of years it has been abused, costing many lives and effecting many families and communities costing billions of dollars a year to the Nation's as a whole.

That is what the OP is about.

Regards Tony
In a free society some will make that bad decision or some other one. We manage problems as a society and accept an imperfect world with problems.

What would you ban next? Junk food to help the nation’s health problems?
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, in my opinion, the anti-cigarette campaigns have been affective - the warnings on the packages themselves, the lack of accessibility, the awareness of 2nd hand smoke, etc.. I haven't checked the numbers if the actual smokers have decreased. But, at a minimum, the non-smokers have it much better now, they can be in public areas without the imposition of cigarette smoke within their environment an atmosphere.
Gambling advertisements also has taken on warnings to deter people from going beyond their limits, and to do so responsibly keeping fun in mind (not stress or avarice)

In general, I think just what you suggested is the way to start. Bring awareness as to the ramifications, first of all. And then, offer alcohol-free dance clubs, bingo nights, sports events, concerts, etc...

Do you feel there is enough information out there on the harms of alcohol? I feel I was pretty aware.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Tony, most of us have horror stories related to booze. A friend of mind drove his car in front of a train, at age 19. Killed instantly. My daughter was raped at a party, too drunk to know the difference. That same daughter came home one night to fetch us, as another kid had been left to die in a frozen snowbank. At 2 AM, my wife and I rushed over there to rescue her and take her home. Her mother got all mad at us for suggesting she was a poor parent, rather than thanking us for saving her daughter's life.

Nobody here is saying booze doesn't cause problems. But neither does prohibition, or preaching at others about it. If educated people continue to get drunk, that's on them. There are no easy solutions. Here, we have a nasty street drug problem with Fentanyl, and many youth overdose on the street. Some governments ban safe injection sites, and more people die. There is no easy solution to all of these things. Booze is safer then fentanyl, and marijuana is safer than booze. Sobriety is safer than any of them. But we have 7 billion folks on the planet, and the reality is you can only truly take care of one of them to the best of your ability.

The OP offered prohibition does not work and that it has to be our own choice. It has also offered the only one we can change is out own self.

No change is possible unless the issues are discussed, that is how the world works.

To make an informed choice appears to be the answer to the OP. Thus education, but I note you have replied to a post that appears you may be against education, or is it the source of that education?

Regards Tony
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Do you feel there is enough information out there on the harms of alcohol? I feel I was pretty aware.

Of the teachers I knew, most were far more afraid of teaching about sexuality than about booze, although the booze and drug curriculums were often loaded with fear tactics that were outright lies.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
The OP offered prohibition does not work and that it has to be our own choice. It has also offered the only one we can change is out own self.

No change is possible unless the issues are discussed, that is how the world works.

To make an informed choice appears to be the answer to the OP. Thus education, but I note you have replied to a post that appears you may be against education, or is it the source of that education?

Regards Tony
See post # 12, very early in the thread.
 

JustGeorge

Not As Much Fun As I Look
Staff member
Premium Member
Of the teachers I knew, most were far more afraid of teaching about sexuality than about booze, although the booze and drug curriculums were often loaded with fear tactics that were outright lies.

Honestly, the fear tactics and lies work against the programs... kids know they're being fed BS and don't take it seriously.

Might be more effective to have ex drunks or ex users talk to them.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Observation, Tony. You can call it judgement if you wish. I see this entire thread as judgmental. I don't drink either, but nor do I oppose those who do, responsibly, and even those who don't, most especially after they're addicted. By that time it's a disease, much like cancer. I have compassion for ill people.

That is a tricky one as the conversations must be had, but overall it is not judging individuals, it is exploring consequences.

Like the Tobbaco experience, the conversations were had, no individual is being judged but the consequences are being addressed.

This is the intent of this OP, to which I have a strong opinion. A personal opinion.

This is not about the Baha'i Faith, even though I am thankful for such a law. I had these views before I was a Baha'i.

Regards Tony
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
There shouldn't be any forcing. But in my opinion we need a more emphasis on ethics and human values in out system, than what we have right now. That should be the basis, the foundation that everything else such as economy, society, work, and everything else be built upon.
So how do you define "ethics and human values?" And do you think these are the same as "morals?"

You know, Baha'is don't accept homosexuality -- and I'm gay. I've been in a committed, faithful relationship for decades; one in which I was caregiver (while still working) for 2 solid years when my partner came down with a life-threatening and debilitating disease. We had no other help -- just me, but I stayed with it and did what I had to do to provide the best care that I possibly could. But Baha'is don't consider my value system to be "moral." So why do you think I should care what Baha'is think? Or Muslims, or Christians, or anybody else?

I can tell you a lot about ethics and morals -- and about human values (I am, after all, a Humanist). And I live those ethics and morals and values every day of my life.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Honestly, the fear tactics and lies work against the programs... kids know they're being fed BS and don't take it seriously.

Might be more effective to have ex drunks or ex users talk to them.

And that's illustrative of the value of personal experience ... in a lot of subjects. Some agencies have a policy of only hiring ex addicts or recovered alcoholics. They have more compassion, I think.

As they say ... 'if you've never walked in those shoes,' Far too often people go on hearsay, or what they read in books, rather than personal experience.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So how do you define "ethics and human values?" And do you think these are the same as "morals?"

You know, Baha'is don't accept homosexuality -- and I'm gay. I've been in a committed, faithful relationship for decades; one in which I was caregiver (while still working) for 2 solid years when my partner came down with a life-threatening and debilitating disease. We had no other help -- just me, but I stayed with it and did what I had to do to provide the best care that I possibly could. But Baha'is don't consider my value system to be "moral." So why do you think I should care what Baha'is think? Or Muslims, or Christians, or anybody else?

I can tell you a lot about ethics and morals -- and about human values (I am, after all, a Humanist). And I live those ethics and morals and values every day of my life.

I see you have your choices in life and I do not judge them and well done on being a carer, it is not an easy task. I also have son that is in a relationship, I accept his choices and do not try to change them because I have accepted a faith that has laws in that regard, so that is how I see that subject.

I see the faith I have embraced offers that there are many people that are not Baha'is that aremost likely more Baha'i than those that have accepted.

So to me it boils down to relative truth, what are we willing as an individual to embrace from all the God given Morals and Vitues and what do we see are Morals and Virtues. It is obvious that our nature and nurture mould our understanding of attributes and morals.

Alcohol consumption has the same issues. The OP is to discuss the moral aspects of its consumption and if people suffer great harm from it, is it morally right to continue to produce it for recreational use?

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In a free society some will make that bad decision or some other one. We manage problems as a society and accept an imperfect world with problems.

What would you ban next? Junk food to help the nation’s health problems?

This is all about personal choice so yes we can educate people against alcohol and junk food and let them make informed choices.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Abolish drugs sex and alcohol but the icecap is melting away so we concentrate on these trivial things in comparison to the very large gorilla in the room.

The cause of all this is disunity. The realisation that we are one people on one planet, that we all need to work together is the Elixer humanity needs. That is when age old predudices will dissolve and solutions to the planets degradation will be found.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I admit, I understand why someone might drink. Gambling... that's beyond me.

Actually, I went to a casino once. My husband and I each had 20 bucks to spend. I put a couple coins in machines. Lost them. It felt dumb. I went to the casino bar and got a drink and a snack... Might as well have something to enjoy for my money...

Vices aside, what do you think would be good alternatives that would be readily utilized?

Now Gambling, do not get me started on that. :D;)

I would really go to town on that topic, but again it all ties into the same solutions.

Regards Tony
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Hmmm? Not if it's banned. Just like a person can use drugs but not sell them, but it's still against the law. Even with wine, where are they going to get the right grapes and the fermenting equipment?

Okay, alcohol, drugs and porn... you say they need to be banned. Will people stop drinking, and taking drugs and watching porn? But all of them are kind of related. Baha'is believe in educating people why these things are bad. So let's say it's a group of high school kids. You tell them that drinking will kill brains cells and make you do things you shouldn't do. Okay, but some of those things they shouldn't do by Baha'i standards are the very things they want to do, and a few drinks is going to help them. You tell them not to do drugs. Same thing, they enjoy getting stoned. They don't care if it's harmful. Then porn? Yeah, tell them not to look at naked people having sex. But, instead, wait until you find the right person and then get married... then have sex with yourselves... and only with yourselves... and never think about having sex with other people. Unfortunately, kids use alcohol and drugs to help them find someone who will have sex with them. So you can say they are banned all you want. But you won't get people to stop doing those things... And that includes religious people too... but it will be in secret.

Let's add Gambling to the mix. @InvestigateTruth

CG, at least do you start to see a trend with all these topics, a trend of feeding self pleasures over the good of all.

All these have the same solutions and it is teaching and encouraging selfless thought and actions.

Regards Tony
 
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