So Jesus is not God?

[ElishaElijah]

Zzz a xzs

 

[JerryMyers]

Does my testimony mention repenting of sin? Yes

Huh?? Let me refresh your memory - I said all your claims and comments are just based on assumptions because you cannot back them up with the words of Jesus (Post#1273) and you responded with, They are backed up if you bothered to read the previous posts. So, really, what nonsense are you talking about here ???Nothing personal...Post #1259 and others, but why bother talking to people like you?’ (Post#1275)

So, really, why even mention Post #1259 if it’s just your own testimony of your ‘reborn’ ?? Or maybe you want to put your testimony up for debate too??

Are you born again and received eternal life?

If your understanding of ‘born again’ and ‘eternal life’ is accepting Jesus and that means believing that he died for your sins and rose again from the dead, I will tell you right now - that’s NOT the teaching of Jesus, that’s the teaching of Paul who said, “And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith” – 1 Corr. 15:14.

Now, what kind of faith is that if it’s entirely dependent on the sole belief that a prophet must die and rise from the dead? A true Faith is centered around and about the One and Only God, NOT around and about His prophet and believing this prophet must die or must sacrifice his life for your sins and that he rose from the dead !!

So, the REAL question is - are you a true follower of Jesus Christ or a follower of Paul ?

 

[ElishaElijah]

Huh?? Let me refresh your memory - I said all your claims and comments are just based on assumptions because you cannot back them up with the words of Jesus (Post#1273) and you responded with, They are backed up if you bothered to read the previous posts. So, really, what nonsense are you talking about here ???Nothing personal...Post #1259 and others, but why bother talking to people like you?’ (Post#1275)

So, really, why even mention Post #1259 if it’s just your own testimony of your ‘reborn’ ?? Or maybe you want to put your testimony up for debate too??


If your understanding of ‘born again’ and ‘eternal life’ is accepting Jesus and that means believing that he died for your sins and rose again from the dead, I will tell you right now - that’s NOT the teaching of Jesus, that’s the teaching of Paul who said, “And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith” – 1 Corr. 15:14.

Now, what kind of faith is that if it’s entirely dependent on the sole belief that a prophet must die and rise from the dead? A true Faith is centered around and about the One and Only God, NOT around and about His prophet and believing this prophet must die or must sacrifice his life for your sins and that he rose from the dead !!

So, the REAL question is - are you a true follower of Jesus Christ or a follower of Paul ?

“As therefore you received Messiah Yeshua the Lord, walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:6-7‬ ‭WMBBE‬‬

 

[ElishaElijah]

So, the REAL question is - are you a true follower of Jesus Christ or a follower of Paul ?

That’s not the Real question but here is the answer Jesus gives:
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a person be born again from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again from above. The wind blows where it desires, and thou hearest the sound of it, but canst not tell from where it comes or where it goes; so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can this be done? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a teacher of Israel and knowest not this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-10‬ ‭JUB‬‬

 

[JerryMyers]

“As therefore you received Messiah Yeshua the Lord, walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, even as you were taught, abounding in it in thanksgiving.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:6-7‬ ‭WMBBE‬‬

In case you have not realized it - those are the words of Paul, NOT Jesus.

So, again, the real question is - are you a true follower of Jesus Christ or a follower of Paul ?

 

[JerryMyers]

That’s not the Real question but here is the answer Jesus gives:
“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a person be born again from above, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus said unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother’s womb and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Unless a man is born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again from above. The wind blows where it desires, and thou hearest the sound of it, but canst not tell from where it comes or where it goes; so is every one that is born of the Spirit. Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can this be done? Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a teacher of Israel and knowest not this?”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:3-10‬ ‭JUB‬‬

First thing you should notice in the passage you quoted above is the glaring fact that Jesus NEVER mentioned nor did he imply to be born again, one must believe he die for the sin of all mankind.

So, what is ‘born again’ ? To be born again is when you have received the Holy Spirit. It's only when the Holy Spirit is in you, will your heart be transformed from indifference and hostility toward God to a love of God and a desire for righteousness and holiness. The only way you can receive the Holy Spirit is to sincerely repent (Acts 2:38).

Jesus NEVER said you must believe he died for your sins to be ‘born again’ nor did he ever said you must believe he died for your sins and rose from the dead for you to enter the kingdom of heaven. In fact, on this note, Jesus said only those who do the Will of God will enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). It's only the other people who said you must believe Jesus died for your sins and that he rose again, else, you have not accepted Jesus and your faith is in vain – who said that? Certainly NOT Jesus!

So, (again) the real question is – are you a true follower of Jesus Christ or a follower of Paul?

 

[ElishaElijah]

In case you have not realized it - those are the words of Paul, NOT Jesus.

So what? Jesus rose from the dead and sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in believers, we are living in the time of the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the Church is the pillar and support of the Truth.

 

[ElishaElijah]

First thing you should notice in the passage you quoted above is the glaring fact that Jesus NEVER mentioned nor did he imply to be born again, one must believe he die for the sin of all mankind.

So, what is ‘born again’ ? To be born again is when you have received the Holy Spirit. It's only when the Holy Spirit is in you, will your heart be transformed from indifference and hostility toward God to a love of God and a desire for righteousness and holiness. The only way you can receive the Holy Spirit is to sincerely repent (Acts 2:38).

Jesus NEVER said you must believe he died for your sins to be ‘born again’ nor did he ever said you must believe he died for your sins and rose from the dead for you to enter the kingdom of heaven. In fact, on this note, Jesus said only those who do the Will of God will enter the kingdom of heaven (Matthew 7:21). It's only the other people who said you must believe Jesus died for your sins and that he rose again, else, you have not accepted Jesus and your faith is in vain – who said that? Certainly NOT Jesus!

So, (again) the real question is – are you a true follower of Jesus Christ or a follower of Paul?

You’re reasoning is this: Your Dad says go to the store and buy some groceries.
Your interpretation: My Dad didn’t mention I needed money so I didn’t bring any to the store.
Although Jesus does say His purpose for coming and if you understood what Jesus says, the Passover and the rest of Scripture you would understand and wouldn’t be saying the things you’re saying.
I’ve talked to many Muslims with the same arguements.

 

[JerryMyers]

So what? Jesus rose from the dead and sent the Holy Spirit to dwell in believers, we are living in the time of the ministry of the Holy Spirit and the Church is the pillar and support of the Truth.

Really? So what!??? So much of being 'born again'! It's obviously clear that as far you are concerned, the words of other people are more important than the words of Jesus Christ -. Got it !!

 

[JerryMyers]

You’re reasoning is this: Your Dad says go to the store and buy some groceries.
Your interpretation: My Dad didn’t mention I needed money so I didn’t bring any to the store.

LOL - That’s a pretty silly analogy, to say the least - you know, like the one you can expect from a kid whose thinking capability has not reached its full potential.

Anyway, it’s quite clear your understanding of Jesus is something like this– if Jesus did not say nor imply he’s God, it means he’s God, if Jesus did not say or imply he was sent to die for your sin, it means he was sent to die for your sin, if Jesus said he by himself can do nothing, it means Jesus, by himself can do anything…. !!

I’ve talked to many Muslims with the same arguements.

I am sure you have and let me guess - the conclusions are the same – you STILL cannot back up your claims and comments with the words of Jesus !!

Although Jesus does say His purpose for coming and if you understood what Jesus says, the Passover and the rest of Scripture you would understand and wouldn’t be saying the things you’re saying.

What did Jesus say of his purpose for coming ?? To die for your sins ?? Really ?? Wow, finally, someone found a verse or a passage in the Bible where Jesus said his purpose for coming is to die for your sins !! Please share this passage with us !! I am sure many readers here are eager to know which passage is that!! Don’t disappoint us now !!

 

[ElishaElijah]

Really? So what!??? So much of being 'born again'! It's obviously clear that as far you are concerned, the words of other people are more important than the words of Jesus Christ -. Got it !!

Jesus Christ said you must be born again in John 3 and All Scripture is inspired by God.

 

[ElishaElijah]

What did Jesus say of his purpose for coming ??

““Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death and deliver Him to the Gentiles; and they will mock Him, and scourge Him, and spit on Him, and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.” For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:33-34, 45‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

 

[JerryMyers]

““Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death and deliver Him to the Gentiles; and they will mock Him, and scourge Him, and spit on Him, and kill Him. And the third day He will rise again.” For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.””
‭‭Mark‬ ‭10:33-34, 45‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

That was Jesus’ purpose of coming to earth?? How disappointing!! Your preconceived mind is preventing you from seeing the truth.

Mark 10:33-34 is just an account of one of the many events that Jesus went through in his lifetime on earth.

The purpose of Jesus on earth is 2 folds –

The first purpose is recorded in his famous Sermon on the Mount in which he states, “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them” (Matthew 5:17). In other words, his purpose of coming is to reiterate the existing Law and fulfill them.

The second of why he was sent to earth is found in John’s gospel: “For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of Him who sent me” (John 6:38).

The Will of the God who sent him, includes among other things, to preach the Law and Message of God to the ‘lost sheep of Israel’ so that they can be saved from their sinning ways. The Jews, of course, took offense of Jesus’ preaching and they plotted to get rid of Jesus as his preaching was a threat to their own traditional beliefs as passed by teir fathers, grandfathers, great grandfathers, and on and on. Was Jesus fully aware of the Jews’ plan to get rid of him? Of course, he was fully aware and in such situation, he was in, he expected to be killed and that’s what leads to Jesus’ saying what he said in Mark 10:33-34.

The phrase ‘to give his life a ransom for many' is a figure of speech to mean Jesus committed his whole life on earth to bring the people out of their sinning ways. In other words, Jesus’ refusal to stop preaching is comparable to a ransom because Jesus traded his potential life of comfort (if he just stopped preaching the Law and Message of God) to a life of abuses, insults, humiliations just to bring the people back to the fold of God.

 

[JerryMyers]

Jesus Christ said you must be born again in John 3 and All Scripture is inspired by God.

So you think when Jesus mentioned ‘born again’, does he mean you must believe that he died for your sins and rose again from the dead?? Give me a break, please !!!

‘All Scripture is inspired by God’ is a reference to the original scripture, NOT to the Bible, you have today. The Bible you have today is a mixture of truth and lies, so, how can you say the Bible you have today is inspired by God ??

 

[ElishaElijah]

All Scripture is inspired by God’ is a reference to the original scripture, NOT to the Bible, you have today. The Bible you have today is a mixture of truth and lies, so, how can you say the Bible you have today is inspired by God ??

The Bible came from the original manuscripts

 

[JerryMyers]

The Bible came from the original manuscripts

The Bible came from the original manuscripts does not mean the Bible cannot end up being a Book of truth and lies. Likewise, we all came from God which does not mean we cannot end up being corrupted through Satan’s temptations.

 

[metis]

The difference is the Holy Spirit doesn’t dwell inside of unbelievers, only believers.

IMO, it's the Holy Spirit that can lead one to become a believer, and I am one of those. I think we all have a "piece of God" within us, which the Society of Friends call our "inner light", but we need to tap into it, which some do and some don't and some do only in part.

Thus, I do not believe God just takes newborn children and gives the Spirit to some but not to others.

 

[DNB]

A question for the Unitarians and other Christians who doubt Jesus is God:

But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8​

Notice that it is GOD that demonstrates His love towards us but it is CHRIST who dies.

Let's pretend Jesus is NOT God, just like you claim. How is it GOD showing his love toward us by asking someone else to die?

If the Warden comes to your house and requests you die for someone who's currently in jail, someone who knows and confesses he's guilty, would you consider this an act of love by the Warden?

Remember, I'm not asking if you are loving by agreeing to die for the convicted felon, I'm asking if you feel the Warden is showing his love for you by asking.

This is extremely easy to answer if Jesus is God. But if he's not, I wonder how it's answered.

Thanks for playing!

Your hypothetical question is not analogous to the scenario that involves God, Jesus and man.
Why would the warden ask one man to die on behalf of another? Nothing has changed, whether the 3rd party agrees or not, the results are the same, one man dies (assuming the guilty party committed a capital crime). In the case of Christ and man, Christ suffers temporal death in order to save man from eternal death.

Either way, God clearly showed His love towards man merely by offering him grace, irrespective of what the means were to receive the forgiveness. Whether Christ was willing to die for man or not, it was God who architected and orchestrated the means to effectuate it. Christ simply complied. It is not necessary, or even plausible, for God to play either mediator or scapegoat in the process of atonement - it had to be a man, and only a full-fledged man like ourselves. And, it had to be someone that had something to lose by doing so - it had to be an authentic sacrifice (not one who could not die permanently).

Jesus Christ is not God, and it is ignorant and blasphemous to say otherwise. You mock God, His wisdom and soteriology, and His ontology, by doing so.

 

[Muffled]

That's not correct, but what I don't believe is that the Bible is completely inerrant.

When it comes to "Divine inspiration", theologians are all over the place on this, and there simply is not enough evidence to somehow establish any one of them as being correct.

I believe then you will have to establish who will determine for you what is in error and what is not. For me that is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Muffled]

I read an auspicious book some time ago… It spoke to me loudly of the danger of sinning!

I read another book that guided me to where I was going. I was led by that book!

I opened my exercise book after some time away and it reminded me of what I had learnt and what was to be learnt.

Hmmm… books… persons?

My computer spoke to me and said, ‘You have new Mail waiting!’… a person spoke to me!!

I believe that is AI. It reflects the personality of the person programming it does it not? In fact nature speaks of God because it reflects the personality of its creator.

Gen. 1:3 And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light.