Why are people afraid of creationism?

[SalixIncendium]

I am responding to how the OP is defining it.

Fair enough.

But I'm hung up on the part of the definition where God created "various forms of life" out of nothing. As I understand it, various forms of life came about by way of evolution, not creation.

 

[SigurdReginson]

In the persut of scientific knowledge, one follows and uses the evidence in hopes of uncovering the truth. In creationism, one follows and uses the "truth" in hopes of uncovering the evidence.

Given the fact that evolution has only strengthened with time, and creationism constantly restructures itself as it fails to pass peer review time and time again shows which method gets real results.

As for fear, meh. I think you may be mistaken.

 

[Polymath257]

Why are creationists afraid of science?

 

[Shakeel]

If your religious views are shaken by the science, then it might be time to re-examine your religious views.

My religious views aren't shaken.... My views on science are.

You are just as welcome to your beliefs as anyone else.

By all appearances atheists are more welcome to their beliefs. By all appearances they're also welcome to impose them on my children.

The question ultimately boils down to whether truth is more important than feeling good about yourself.

Even if you assume you prefer truth it's only because it makes you feel better to prefer it, one might say.

Nobody is 'forcing' people to stop believing

I consider manipulation to be a type of forcing.

But part of education is learning what the best understanding at the time is.

And you would decide what is the best understanding.

And at the same time, I'm sure, claim tolerance.

 

[Polymath257]

My religious views aren't shaken.... My views on science are.

Once again, you might want to reconsider your religious beliefs if they contradict the science.

By all appearances atheists are more welcome to their beliefs. By all appearances they're also welcome to impose them on my children.

The belief in science is not limited to atheists. Many theists also understand that evolution, even of humans, actually happened.

Even if you assume you prefer truth it's only because it makes you feel better to prefer it, one might say.
I consider manipulation to be a type of forcing.

And do you consider it to be so if it is your religion doing the manipulation?

And you would decide what is the best understanding.

No, I would allow the experts in each field determine the best understanding. So, for example, the research biologists would get to decide the legitimacy of evolution.

And at the same time, I'm sure, claim tolerance.

Absolutely. If your religious beliefs contradict the actual facts on the ground, then it isn't intolerance to say they shouldn't be taught in schools.

 

[SigurdReginson]

By all appearances atheists are more welcome to their beliefs. By all appearances they're also welcome to impose them on my children.

You do realize that there are plenty of folks that accept evolution who are also theists, right? I would say they even outnumber the atheists, considering how small the population of atheists is compared to theists in the world.

Evolution can coexist with god beliefs just fine. Only folks who are rigid in their beliefs seem to have a hard time accepting evolution, it seems.

 

[epronovost]

And you would decide what is the best understanding.

And at the same time, I'm sure, claim tolerance.

You have the right to the respect of your opinions, not the right to your own facts. The goal of education is to teach the best knowledge we currently have in the specific fields concerned. Thus, in biology, students will learn about the modern theory of evolution amongst other things

 

[Altfish]

Definition of creationism:

"creationism, the belief that the universe and the various forms of life were created by God out of nothing (ex nihilo)."
creationism | Definitions, History, & Facts

[kind of dubious that the article goes on to say, "It is a response primarily to modern evolutionary theory," since the idea of creationism was definitely there before the evolution theory.]

So we're not talking about biblical view to creationism alone.

I, as a Muslim, believe in science (in the sense that I acknowledge what has been achieved and found by it and that it is useful to study) and I don't deny much of the evolutionary theory, nor do I confirm it. I don't think it's important. The main thing about it that Muslims object to is the creation of man and that he supposedly evolved from the ancestors of monkeys. So there's plenty of room for science.

But there doesn't seem to be room for creationism anywhere according to some atheists and even some hypocritical believers.

What is the harm in it being said that God created everything? The children are going to hear it anyway.

In my opinion it is nothing but one of the many tactics used to attempt to annihilate religion, belief, and righteousness.

I am not afraid of Creationism as such, in the same way that I am not afraid of the Loch Ness Monster.

BUT what i do object to is Creationism in schools being taught to children as a fact. If your preacher/imam wants to teach it to his followers that is fine.
I was taught that god created everything but I had to unlearn it when I discovered the better explanations (with evidence) of science.

You say that you don't think evolution is important. ... Where do you think the variants of the COVID virus are coming from? Is your god creating those too?

If religion makes unsubstantiated claims, then scientists will continue to debunk them.
Not sure what righteousness has got to do with creation/evolution?

 

[ChristineM]

By all appearances atheists are more welcome to their beliefs. By all appearances they're also welcome to impose them on my children.

Right, when was the last time your children were forced not to go to mosque by an atheist?

 

[Polymath257]

In my opinion it is nothing but one of the many tactics used to attempt to annihilate religion, belief, and righteousness.

You are attributing motives that most scientists simply do not have. The vast majority of scientists (both theists and atheists) are simply interested in figuring out the truth to the extent it can be known.

The question of whether what they discover is uncomfortable to any given religion is simply not one of their concerns. If a religion disagrees with what they discover, then the religion has to deal (or not deal) with the differences. if the religion agrees with their discoveries, then the religion, again, has to deal (or not deal) with that fact as well.

Most scientists are simply not obsessed with what religions claim when it comes to their area of research. The religious views are largely irrelevant.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

It would be rather self righteous and oppressive to try to force them stop believing, seeing as it makes many people feel better and behave better. Our main problem with those who are insane is that their feelings and behaviour are mostly negative and directly harmful.

Here is something to consider (and be careful how you answer now - consider first the goose and the gander):

Is it "self-righteous and oppressive" to attempt to steer people into the direction you think is right? To inform them of ideas and evidence and items you consider "fact" in order to try and educate them? Is that "self-righteous and oppressive?" Because THAT'S what is really going on when people try to keep "creationism" out of school curricula. THAT'S what's going on when the atheist replies to you with "I don't believe you, where is your evidence? And while you're at it, have a look at the well-established evidence for this competing hypothesis."

No one is trying to "force" you to stop believing... just to convince you that what you believe has no basis in reality. There is a difference there, though many theists tend not to see it in favor of crying about "persecution" as though they had just seen an ethereal wolf.

 

[Jainarayan]

Why are creationists afraid of science?

It contradicts their beliefs that the Bible is literal. From what I have seen, it’s only the fundamentalists who reject science and read the Bible literally. The Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Anglican Churches, and afaik mainstream Protestant churches have no problem with scientific explanations as long as God is behind the curtain. Iirc Pope John Paul II once said there’s no problem with exploring the origins of the universe, that it arose from a singularity, i.e. the Big Bang. However, to try to probe beyond that, to try to understand what happened before ... what’s north of north... is a no-no, because that is God’s business. And I have to give JP Redux props for that, given how conservative he was.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Definition of creationism:

"creationism, the belief that the universe and the various forms of life were created by God out of nothing (ex nihilo)."
creationism | Definitions, History, & Facts

[kind of dubious that the article goes on to say, "It is a response primarily to modern evolutionary theory," since the idea of creationism was definitely there before the evolution theory.]

This is a common misconception.
The idea of a creator, ie a "prime mover" or sorts was around before evolution.

Creationism however, only came on the scene as a response to evolution.
This is why a catholic who has no problems with evolution, yet considers god "the grand architect", is not called a "creationist" but rather something like a "theistic evolutionist".

So yea, the word "creationist" explicitly refers to someone who
1. is religions and believes in a creator god
and
2. explicitly denies evolution and says god created species in pretty much present form.

This is also why this subforum is called "evolution versus creationism".

So we're not talking about biblical view to creationism alone.

Indeed no. Instead, we are talking about a religious belief that evolution didn't happen and that a god created all species from scratch.

Indeed, this is not restricted to just christians. Many jews and muslims are creationists too.

I, as a Muslim, believe in science (in the sense that I acknowledge what has been achieved and found by it and that it is useful to study) and I don't deny much of the evolutionary theory, nor do I confirm it. I don't think it's important. The main thing about it that Muslims object to is the creation of man and that he supposedly evolved from the ancestors of monkeys. So there's plenty of room for science.

The idea that humans didn't evolve but were created as-is, is a creationist idea. And flies in the face of biology, genetics, comparative anatomy, paleontology, etc etc etc.

But there doesn't seem to be room for creationism anywhere according to some atheists and even some hypocritical believers.

Indeed, there isn't. Just like there is no room anywhere for flat-earthism, Stork Theory or undetectable pink graviton pixies who regulate gravity.

What is the harm in it being said that God created everything? The children are going to hear it anyway.

Children who are brought up that way, are scientifically illiterate as it concerns biology at least.
Not only that, they are also told (indirectly at least) that science is just some guessing game or something they don't need to take terribly seriously. It also tells them that if evidence conflicts with their a priori beliefs, they can ignore the evidence and stick to the beliefs.

None of this will end well. None of this has any positive outcome.
All it does, is damage the child and limit its intellectual development, educational opportunities, and eventual career paths.

It also severely harms them in terms of critical thinking and rational reasoning.

No good can come of it.

In my opinion it is nothing but one of the many tactics used to attempt to annihilate religion, belief, and righteousness.

The large number of religious evolutionary biologists who have no problems at all accepting evolution (all of evolution) science, demonstrate that to be extremely false.

You also just confirmed one of my concerns that I raised.....
Your "opinion" signals to your children that they should be suspicious of science and consider it "anti-religious".

None of this is healthy or in the best interest of the child.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

My religious views aren't shaken.... My views on science are.

When your beliefs don't agree with the facts of reality, then it's not reality that is incorrect.

By all appearances atheists are more welcome to their beliefs. By all appearances they're also welcome to impose them on my children.

Science is not atheism.
Atheism is not science.

Also, atheism is not even a belief.

I think the fact that you so casually jump from science to atheism, kind of reveals the root of the problem in your thinking.......

Even if you assume you prefer truth it's only because it makes you feel better to prefer it, one might say.
I consider manipulation to be a type of forcing.

Manipulation.... you mean like manipulating children into favoring religious tales over well established scientific theories?

 

[Brian2]

The issue with how creationism is commonly presented in that context is that anything that contradicts the religious beliefs being presented is automatically dismissed as false - either lies or ignorance - without any justification.

It also seems to be the case that anything that contradicts the science is also automatically dismissed as false by those who get their truths from science.
The truth seems to be that we don't know if the hard line scientific notion of evolution is correct or not.

 

[Brian2]

Isn't this the foundation of creationism, though? That species didn't evolve? That they were just created by God as they are?

I can accept a divine foundation for the universe or existence as a whole, but I don't consider that to be creationism as the term is typically used.

The language should be different imo.
Many people see "creationism" as just the idea that God created everything. Others see it as what young earth creationist say.
Personally I see that the Bible can allow for evolution.
As long as it allowed that science does not know it all.

 

[Brian2]

Cute how science is OK until it conflicts with ancient beliefs. Not very logical, but whatever.

How is it that science has to be 100% correct about everything?

Rational people that do not see a reason to have arbitrary limits on what aspects of scientific investigation should be accepted and what should be ignored or dismissed?
How horrible!!

It's not really arbitrary limits, it's limits because of religious beliefs.

 

[Brian2]

Why blame atheist for scientific evidence. Actually Darwin had a religious background and studied anglican theology.

Shakeel was not blaming atheists, just pointing out the fact that according to some atheists there is no room for creationism (and not the young earth creationist type of creationism)

No harm, other than that of deliberate ignorance of basic sciences

Since science does not know if God created everything or not, believing that God created everything is not against basic sciences.

 

[sun rise]

My belief:

God is the Truth.
To deny God's Truth is to deny God.
Science is the lens through which we learn the truth of creation.
To deny science is to turn one's back on God's truth
To deny a part of science is to deny science.
Evolution is a scientific fact including the evolution of humans.
To deny evolution of humans is to deny God's truth and thus to deny God.

 

[Brian2]

You do realize that there are plenty of folks that accept evolution who are also theists, right? I would say they even outnumber the atheists, considering how small the population of atheists is compared to theists in the world.

Considering this, it is hard to see why atheist make such a big deal about evolution contradicting the Bible. That might be just a reaction to the young earth creationist ideas but even a theist who does not believe earth creationism can be attacked by atheists over this issue. It is as if they have decided that the Bible is a fiction because of evolution when those who believe the Bible do not think so.