Noah's flood story, did it happen?

[Subduction Zone]

OK, So, why dont you tell me then...
If the Atmosphere were a wet entity before the flood, and cleared up a year later, how much C14 will be in it?

Do you realize that we have about half a million years of records of the amount of C14 in the atmosphere? Why are you focusing so much on C14 it was essentially "at equilibrium (not quite a correct term since events did change the amount) for longer than man has been on the planet.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

LOL! You won't be specific with your claims.

I'm not here to make claims - but to ask questions and ask others for explanations.

I understand that you do not like answering questions - and that's fine - but stop pestering me to "choose a side" when I don't want to.

I don't not know how I should interpret the Genesis account of the Flood event.

I have done this before and people pretend that their version of the flood myth was not refuted because they were too cowardly to state it.

And as I have stated numerous times now - I don't have a "version" that I subscribe to.

Give me specifics and I will tell you why you are wrong.

How can you prove me wrong when I have made no claim?

I'm asking questions.

You are just being unnecessarily antagonistic.

More projection. Almost everything that you post has been distorted.

More examples of claims you are making without explanations.

How am I projecting? What have I distorted? Will you answer any of my questions?

Have you forgotten your failures on the thread where we first tangled so soon?

I still stand by what I said in that other thread - and you were unwilling to point out my "failures".

You pretended to take offense for something arbitrary and benign as an excuse to not engage me.

And here you are acting belligerent again - claiming that I am wrong without explaining how that is so.

And it makes no sense in this thread because I have made no claims.

LOL. You do make me laugh.

More evidence. Thank you.

When you are ready to be serious then post some claims

Maybe you are in the business of making claims without first solidifying your opinion, arguments and evidence - but not me.

I'm fine with pointing out how the "evidence" that people use to "prove" or "disprove" the story of Noah and the Flood are lacking.

Your present ones have been refuted.

I have yet to make claims.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

You claim to know something, but refuse to reveal what it is you claim to know.

What are you talking about?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not here to make claims - but to ask questions and ask others for explanations.

I understand that you do not like answering questions - and that's fine - but stop pestering me to "choose a side" when I don't want to.

I don't not know how I should interpret the Genesis account of the Flood event.

Then quit complaining about the supposedly "vague" answers. It is highly hypocritical to complain about answer being vague when the person demanding concrete explanations will not give a solid description of his belief.

And as I have stated numerous times now - I don't have a "version" that I subscribe to.

How can you prove me wrong when I have made no claim?

I'm asking questions.

You are just being unnecessarily antagonistic.

Oh my, once again the king of projection. You are not "asking questions" you are complaining. Weren't you the one endlessly complaining on the critical thinking thread. I think that you realized that your critical thinking leaves a bit to be desired.

More examples of claims you are making without explanations.

How am I projecting? What have I distorted? Will you answer any of my questions?

I still stand by what I said in that other thread - and you were unwilling to point out my "failures".

You pretended to take offense for something arbitrary and benign as an excuse to not engage me.

And here you are acting belligerent again - claiming that I am wrong without explaining how that is so.

And it makes no sense in this thread because I have made no claims.

More evidence. Thank you.

Maybe you are in the business of making claims without first solidifying your opinion, arguments and evidence - but not me.

I'm fine with pointing out how the "evidence" that people use to "prove" or "disprove" the story of Noah and the Flood are lacking.

I have yet to make claims.

Oh please, Sorry, but you have fallen to the point where your demands will simple be ignored. You only get corrections. Engage in a proper discussion and I will gladly answer questions. You are trying to raise endless detours.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Well, there you have it.
How did Noah build a boat big enough for representatives of all animal kinds? GodDidIt!
How did all the animals get to where Noah built the ark? GodDidIt!
How did all the animals get fed for forty days and nights? GodDidIt!
How did a comparatively small, unpowered boat, survive the worst seas imaginable? GodDidIt!
How did all the animals get to China and Hawaii and Australia? GodDidIt!

There is really no need to look at other ancient texts and oral histories.
There is no need to discuss how impossible the entire story is.

All you need to know is: GodDidIt!

[/QUOTE]
Honestly - if there is a God as described in the Bible - there may be a lot of truth here.

I mean - if the God described in the Bible did actually create the Earth and has power over life and death - why couldn't He do these things?

Your disdain is definitely not going to discourage anyone who believes in a real and living God.

So - why be so disdainful when it is not productive?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Honestly - if there is a God as described in the Bible - there may be a lot of truth here.

I mean - if the God described in the Bible did actually create the Earth and has power over life and death - why couldn't He do these things?

Your disdain is definitely not going to discourage anyone who believes in a real and living God.

So - why be so disdainful when it is not productive?

Can God lie?

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Then quit complaining about the supposedly "vague" answers. It is highly hypocritical to complain about answer being vague when the person demanding concrete explanations will not give a solid description of his belief.

You were the one to make the claims that Noah was fictional and that a global Flood event did not happen and that "much" of the evidence supposedly proving these things have been "confirmed".

So - you made the claims and you mentioned specific confirmed evidence that supported your claims.

Why is it impossible for you to share what you believe has been confirmed?

Oh my, once again the king of projection. You are not "asking questions" you are complaining. Weren't you the one endlessly complaining on the critical thinking thread. I think that you realized that your critical thinking leaves a bit to be desired.

Pointing out your inability to back up your claims is not complaining.

What do you possibly get out of doing that? You just like telling people that they are wrong?

And I was correct about that other thread. Pointing our how a RF member is breaking the rules is not complaining.

You just put the most negative spin on what I say because I'm open-minded and do not subscribe to your bias.

Oh please, Sorry, but you have fallen to the point where your demands will simple be ignored. You only get corrections. Engage in a proper discussion and I will gladly answer questions. You are trying to raise endless detours.

You sure love coming up with excuses not to answer questions.

And you like claiming that people are wrong without explaining how that is so.

And bro - do you live on this site or something? You respond so fast.

Is this your only window to the outside world? That would explain a lot.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Can God lie?

Depends on what you believe who/what God is.

I believe that the Bible claims that God cannot lie.

Now - you see how I answered your question?

It wasn't so hard - now you try it - provide all that stuff you claimed to have.

I hope you're wearing those special lenses that protect your eyes from the blue light.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You were the one to make the claims that Noah was fictional and that a global Flood event did not happen and that "much" of the evidence supposedly proving these things have been "confirmed".

So - you made the claims and you mentioned specific confirmed evidence that supported your claims.

Why is it impossible for you to share what you believe has been confirmed?

Pointing out your inability to back up your claims is not complaining.

What do you possibly get out of doing that? You just like telling people that they are wrong?

And I was correct about that other thread. Pointing our how a RF member is breaking the rules is not complaining.

You just put the most negative spin on what I say because I'm open-minded and do not subscribe to your bias.

You sure love coming up with excuses not to answer questions.

And you like claiming that people are wrong without explaining how that is so.

And bro - do you live on this site or something? You respond so fast.

Is this your only window to the outside world? That would explain a lot.

If you paid attention instead of complaining all the time you would have seen that I have supported that. But until people make specific claims there is no point in giving specific refutations. Creationists learned this game too. So they just post endless nonsense, denials, and detours as you have.

Ask proper questions and you will get proper answers.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

If you paid attention instead of complaining all the time you would have seen that I have supported that. But until people make specific claims there is no point in giving specific refutations. Creationists learned this game too. So they just post endless nonsense, denials, and detours as you have.

Ask proper questions and you will get proper answers.

No - you came to me and you said that I was wrong - even though I made no claim.

You made claims that you said you could back up - but refuse to.

So - no - I have no need or desire to ask you anything.

If you don't want to try and do what you claimed you could do - then leave me alone.

Shoo shoo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

No - you came to me and you said that I was wrong - even though I made no claim.

You made claims that you said you could back up - but refuse to.

So - no - I have no need or desire to ask you anything.

If you don't want to try and do what you claimed you could do - then leave me alone.

Shoo shoo.

Find the post and link it. I am betting that you are distorting what was claimed again.

And you are the one complaining to me. I did not search you out. More hypocrisy.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

Find the post and link it. I am betting that you are distorting what was claimed again.

I'm not interested in talking to you anymore.

And - yes - I'm aware that you'd try to use this as "evidence" that you never made those claims.

Your personal qualifier of what constitutes "evidence" is very low.

I'm convinced that even if I were to quote you directly - you'd still tell me I'm wrong - so I gain nothing.

Shoo shoo.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm not interested in talking to you anymore.

And - yes - I'm aware that you'd try to use this as "evidence" that you never made those claims.

Your personal qualifier of what constitutes "evidence" is very low.

I'm convinced that even if I were to quote you directly - you'd still tell me I'm wrong - so I gain nothing.

Shoo shoo.

No, it is not "evidence" but you do have a history of distorting others. The thread on which there was no rule breaking you were corrected again and again by multiple posters for your distortions. I have no interest in back tracking on this thread either. Funny when you get the same burden of proof you run away. I did not demand that you did find the post. It almost certainly does not exist as you claimed. That is good enough for me.

And once again you responded to me. Go shoo yourself.

 

[rational experiences]

Parts of The Bible are most definitely in contradiction to scientific findings. I didn't really think this point was what you were going after because it is just so indefensible. So completely indefensible that it is laughable. I thought you were trying to state that The Bible contains some sound information from a scientific perspective - not that the entire thing is without contradiction to scientific findings.

Holy crap - here's a super-duper easy one - if you understand the science (if you don't now, then go read up and come back to me once you have), then this one blows your stance completely out of the water.

The Bible says: "God made the first man (Adam) out of clay." - that is, literally, that the first human was made from clay. Now, I get that we are all put together from the same stuff that exists on Earth - not all of it can be found in "clay", specifically, of course - but I am sure that is where your feeble attempts to defend The Bible's idiotic account would go. I get that entirely. But what I would like you to take into consideration is the striking, and rationally undeniable evidence for common descent (that is, humans as a product of the evolution of other ape species) that comes in the form of the study of endogenous retroviruses (this is the key thing you need to read up on if you currently have no knowledge or exposure - which is why I bolded, italicized, and underlined it for you, for your convenience) as they appear in mass-commonality within the DNA of both other ape species and humans. Where does the fact that human and ape lineage converge somewhere down the line play into the idea that "God created the first human from clay?" How do you reconcile this? Wouldn't it be somewhat more accurate to say that He created the first "ape" from this earthen substance? Hell... I mean it makes more sense not to use the specific word "clay" in the first place, of course, since it is not encompassing of enough of the actual materials used to grow and become a human body... but we're talking about The Bible, of course - which means we have to give it some leeway, as it was written by a bunch of ancient people who were ignorant of many of the facts surrounding their own existence and state of being. It would also then make more sense to say that He created the first [insert original ancestor of apes and humans here] out of "clay," but, of course, we couldn't expect that knowledge to be part of thousands of years old peoples either.

And I will tell you exactly why the animosity from my end. Because your type of mindset sickens me. That's why. It is the bane of humanity, in my opinion, and I personally can't do enough to combat it. Stuff that in your pipe and smoke it.

What I learnt being a healthy human psyche to irradiated.

What my human brain saw after chemical changes.

In stone human etched images like statues. Everywhere on earth in pictures photos movies etc.

You have to quote science human thesis to advise where a mind of theist human placed human beginnings.

As water with microbiomes that had sealed shut fission reaction of a sun blasting converting earth mass.

Humans did not begin in stone as microbiome. You however said we did as life by a science theist is his claim began inside stone. Theories to build machines to force reactions. Conditioned by designer the effect afterwards. Human caused.

Life began in water above ground.

Earth gases named as spirit of the heavens were burning naturally in space until they became the evolved clear state. God owned water with life. Why not lit water has life in its great depths.

Teaching heavens as God status owned it first. Not God the stone mass.

Earth was blasted by the sun that set alight gases again that burnt microbes in water to produce carbon body.

Water as the origin flood was not science. Origin natural water sealed off the stone by natural water not salted. By pressure conditions. Mass of.

Evaporation placed water mass back into heavens. UFO still active. Pressure changed. Underground volcanic eruptions. Water salted.

Known recorded ancient psychic higher aware intelligent spiritual humans far more intelligent than any of you today but still destructive history of human thinking. About good and bad but hurting good by applying bad. Choice of men.

 

[Fallen Prophet]

I'm still here.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I'm still here.

I see you could not take your own advice..

Any serious questions?

 

[rational experiences]

Noah's Ark.

About wood. Garden nature before humans owner the body wood.

Science human theist God one planet science products. Alchemy conversions fission energy the stone.

Stone human thinker theism is before wood. O God earth energy power.

Wood holy garden was supporting bio life.

Human book writer man pretended in theory as scientist that he was the body stone by thinking about stone. Mind instantly displaced.

Attacked the wood by his stone ark covenant theories. Incinerated the low ground crops and bushes. Trees obviously as hardened wood survived. Deserts formed as mass water was removed off ground and from nature living support.

Nature combusted
Humans and animals combusted. Evidence of life gone.

In flooding attack humans moved into mountains for safety. UFO tip mountain peak reactive attacking still active. Was witnessed by survivors. Human memory.

When clouds formed image of human animals ark the attack to mountain stopped. All mountains disintegrated mass from stone casement. Crumbled to feet of multi mountain ranges. Attack finally stopped attacking all mountains. Temple circuit in mountains destroyed.

Landed stopped on Ararat leaving temple evidence wood ballast conversion. Temple machine causing attack blown up. Reason it stopped.

Known human evidence against science self. Was witnessed by human survivors.

Giza flooded over false pyramid mountain. Stone sphinx striations prove radiation attack. Water flooded record into new earth sink holes. Healthy water put back into underground water taint by flood event. Evidence removed polluted irradiated water.

Mayans however was a memory remembered recorded of water taint in underground tunnel system.

 

[joelr]

I think yo9u got me totally wrong.
for one, I believe the C14 testing methods, and will not question the ages in their results.
What I do say is that, if we just for one second, assume an atmosphere that was filled with high levels of fog, for 1500 years, and then have this atmosphere clear up...
Will there be C14?

The aswer is no!

High levels of fog for 1500 years? You have evidence for that? Wouldn't that kill all plants?
It doesn't matter because we not only can use tree ring measurements but also can determine concentration of C-14 in the atmosphere:


"Evidence of past history of C-14 concentration in the atmosphere is now available through the past 22,000 years, using ages of lake sediments in which organic carbon compounds are preserved. Reporting before a 1976 conference on past climates, Professor Minze Stuiver of the University of Washington found that magnetic ages of the lake sediments remained within 500 years of the radiocarbon ages throughout the entire period. He reported that the concentration of C-14 in the atmosphere during that long interval did not vary by more than 10 percent (Stuiver, 1976, p. 835).

Thus, the available evidence is sufficient to validate the radiocarbon method of age determination with an error of about 10 percent for twice as long a period as the creation scenario calls for."

How Good are those Young-Earth Arguments: Radiocarbon Dating

Now, as I say, I dont have a problem if you dont want to accept the Biblical description, thats up to you...
But then you must allow me to accept the Biblical narratives, and you MUST allow me to utilise C14 dating to be seen in the light of what I read from the Bible.

Has nothing to do with what I want or don't want. If I wanted to believe Middle Earth was a real place in the Earth I cannot because there is no evidence. I would like to believe in Thor as well but I am unable due to evidence. Biblical narratives are myth and cannot be demonstrated to be anything but made up stories by people.

I have heard so many times how Atheists say they have the ultimate evidence that the Bible is wrong, because C14 shows that there was people living 10 000 and 15 000 years ago, and that some Mamoths date to 20 000 years etc.

Well, such a claim is invalid if the C14 levels did not exist 4500 years ago!
If the C14 levels was non existant after the flood, any sample will test incredible ages.

As I posted earlier there are several lines of evidence flood geology uses to demonstrate a world flood is impossible.

I'm still confused about the specifics of the story, do you believe in evolution and what animals were on the Arc? Was it 2 of all animals, were they in sevens like mentioned in scripture or were they 2 or 7 of each "kind"?

 

[tas8831]

Hardboiled and then Flash Frozen.

Hardboiled by demi-god Mercury by flying them to his planet and then Flash Frozen by demi-god Pluto by flying them to his planet. This was done with precision so that the eggs would thaw in exactly 41 days.

Fantastic! This HAS to be correct and true!

 

[SA Huguenot]

Maybe you should give the theists time. Maybe as they will discover how science doesn't say what apologists and con-artists claim, they will be the ones to change opinions?

Your double standard and confirmation bias is showing again.





You really need to start comprehending that what people believe, and the mere fact that they believe it, is not evidence of them being correct in those beliefs.

Something is not true just because X believes it. Or because X amount of people believe it.

It's one fallacy after the other with you.

Learn what is and isn't evidence.

So, everyone is wrong if they dont agree with you on Noah's flood, the Biblical creation in relation to science, the existence of God etc.

Oph! but the world is realy bad in having Christians and people using science to attest that God exists.

The Nobel Laureates over 100 years.
65% of the overall winners identified as Christian,2 whilst over 20% were Jewish and just under 1% were Muslim
Just under 11% of the winners had no belief in God (e.g. atheists and agnostics), although, interestingly, far more of them were in the field of literature (around 35% of winners), than in scientific disciplines (7% of winners in chemistry, 9% in medicine and 5% in physics).
Christians made up just under two–thirds of those receiving the physics and medicine awards (64% and 65% respectively), whilst the figure was even higher for chemistry, as they accounted for nearly three–quarters of the winners (74%).

Here we have it,
The most educated people on this earth that made everyone's life better.