Caitlyn Jenner says transgender girls in women’s sports is ‘unfair’

[We Never Know]

By posting a picture that completely misrepresents the topic under discussion?
Why?

As I said the picture is sarcasm. But who knows they might identify as female.

I male can say he identifies as a female and thinks he should be able to compete with females. Look up Laurel Hubbard or Mary Gregory

 

[SkepticThinker]

As I said the picture is sarcasm. But who knows they might identify as female.

I male can say he identifies as a female and thinks he should be able to compete with females. Look up Laurel Hubbard or Mary Gregory

Sorry, but I find this to be quite disingenuous, as it is a misrepresentation of the topic under discussion.

Laurel Hubbard and Mary Gregory don't look like the people in the photo you posted.

 

[We Never Know]

Sorry, but I find this to be quite disingenuous, as it is a misrepresentation of the topic under discussion.

Laurel Hubbard and Mary Gregory don't look like the people in the photo you posted.

What does looks have to do with it? Are your judging them based on looks?

 

[SkepticThinker]

What does looks have to do with it? Are your judging them based on looks?

Don't try turning this on me.

Why are you trying to pretend they are transgendered?
Or do you have confirmation that they are transgendered?

 

[We Never Know]

Don't try turning this on me.

Why are you trying to pretend they are transgendered?
Or do you have confirmation that they are transgendered?

I'm not pretending anything. I don't know if they are or not. Why are you so sure they aren't transgender?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'm not pretending anything. I don't know if they are or not. Why are you so sure they aren't transgender?

Please don't waste time making disingenuous arguments and then playing dumb.

Thanks.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

As I said the picture is sarcasm. But who knows they might identify as female.

I male can say he identifies as a female and thinks he should be able to compete with females. Look up Laurel Hubbard or Mary Gregory

You know, your tagine says to be aware that reality is different to different people and to be kind. But it sounds like you're just pushing the 'men are pretending to be women to beat them' view then couching that harmful stereotype as a jokeyjoke.

This thread has already discussed how these rules are effecting negatively even ciswomen like me, who may have been forced to take hormones to put me more in line with 'normal' female hormones, because I have a fairly common condition which gives me more testosterone. The rules are taking an overly simplistic view on what being a woman means and how what's being called fair is just tunnel visioned.

If you can discuss that without punching down trans people, you might understand the topic better.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I'm not pretending anything. I don't know if they are or not. Why are you so sure they aren't transgender?

Since they're made up, they can be whatever you want. This would have no bearing on reality, though.

You seem really desperate to hate on trans people. Did a trans person steal your girlfriend or something?

 

[We Never Know]

You know, your tagine says to be aware that reality is different to different people and to be kind. But it sounds like you're just pushing the 'men are pretending to be women to beat them' view then couching that harmful stereotype as a jokeyjoke.

This thread has already discussed how these rules are effecting negatively even ciswomen like me, who may have been forced to take hormones to put me more in line with 'normal' female hormones, because I have a fairly common condition which gives me more testosterone. The rules are taking an overly simplistic view on what being a woman means and how what's being called fair is just tunnel visioned.

If you can discuss that without punching down trans people, you might understand the topic better.

I don't hate transgenders. I simply do not believe a male should compete in female sports. Just like I think Caitlyn Jenner shouldn't have been woman of the year.

If that makes me a hater, then I guess it makes me a hater.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I don't hate transgenders. I simply do not believe a male should compete in female sports. Just like I think Caitlyn Jenner shouldn't have been woman of the year.

If that makes me a hater, then I guess it makes me a hater.

Caitlyn Jenner shouldn't have been woman of the year because she's done reprehensible actions. Not because transwomem are actually men (they aren't.)

And as I said, these overlysimplistic views on 'what makes a woman' harms both transwomen and ciswomen.

 

[Aštra’el]

There is no solution that is going to benefit everybody. In this particular situation I would go with the solution that benefits the most people possible.

-Women’s Division- Athletes are selected from non-trans females only.

-Men’s Division- Athletes are selected primarily from men, but top-tier women and trans athletes are welcome to try out, and if they make the cut, great.

-Some areas like California, Portland, and Canada might have enough trans people to form a Trans Division, and they can divide it however they like. It would be open exclusively to trans people.

And there it is. The perfect solution. Or, as close as it’s going to get.

 

[Kooky]

Would it be ok for this group to lift in women weight lifting?
Why or why not?

And again and again, the old "trans women are men in dresses" canard.

Have you ever actually met a trans woman who fully transitioned?

 

[Revoltingest]

It's common for trans people to be insulted and dehumanized in these discussions. We're often discussed in the abstract, as if we're not here on the board, too. Very invasive discussions about our bodies, organs, etc. It's ****ed up but that's how it is. I don't see why cis people are so obsessed over it. It's gross. They wouldn't like it if someone discussed them in the same way, but it's cool to objectify us. I mean, let's hear all about their bits and pieces. Let them whip out what's in their pants, skirt or dress so we can be totally sure. (As if that means anything because genital surgery is a thing.)

It would be easier to address athlete standards if there
weren't those in denial of the existence of trans folk.
But the worst is legislators who are in denial...& fixated
on imagined bathroom drama. Go figure.

 

[Kooky]

There is no solution that is going to benefit everybody. In this particular situation I would go with the solution that benefits the most people possible.

-Women’s Division- Athletes are selected from non-trans females only.

-Men’s Division- Athletes are selected primarily from men, but top-tier women and trans athletes are welcome to try out, and if they make the cut, great.

-Some areas like California, Portland, and Canada might have enough trans people to form a Trans Division, and they can divide it however they like. It would be open exclusively to trans people.

And there it is. The perfect solution. Or, as close as it’s going to get.

So your "solution" is to arbitrarily discriminate against trans women and bar them from athletic competition.
How is that a solution for anything? What problem does this form of discrimination solve?

 

[We Never Know]

And again and again, the old "trans women are men in dresses" canard.

Have you ever actually met a trans woman who fully transitioned?

This may anger some but I seem to have that affect on people because I speak what's on my mind.

Sex changes are expensive however castration isn't that expensive. If a male identifies as a female and wants to be a female, being females don't have testis, they should go get their testes cut off ASAP and say bye bye to testosterone. That's a start.

With that said, I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Heyo]

So your "solution" is to arbitrarily discriminate against trans women and bar them from athletic competition.
How is that a solution for anything? What problem does this form of discrimination solve?

I guess trans people have become the "Holy War" of the season. Ad hominems, loss of reading ability and resulting straw (wo)men/trans/non-binary/etc.
I think I'll sit this one out.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I guess trans people have become the "Holy War" of the season. Ad hominems, loss of reading ability and resulting straw (wo)men/trans/non-binary/etc.
I think I'll sit this one out.

Meh, I'm not affected by it in my life. Some "holy war".

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think the skeleton determines ones original sex.
Bruce/Catlin Jenner still has a male skeleton meaning a male to female transition is not complete and therefore shouldn't compete against natural women in a sports environment.

A trans division is definitely a sound reasonable solution to this problem that natural women are having.

@Aštra’el has provided the best outcome and the most fair solution that I've seen to address this.

 

[Heyo]

Meh, I'm not affected by it in my life. Some "holy war".

"
holy wars /n./ [from Usenet, but may predate it] /n./ flame wars over religious issues. The paper by Danny Cohen that popularized the terms big-endian and little-endian in connection with the LSB-first/MSB-first controversy was entitled "On Holy Wars and a Plea for Peace". Other perennial Holy Wars have included EMACS vs. vi, my personal computer vs. everyone else's personal computer, ITS vs. Unix, Unix vs. VMS, BSD Unix vs. USG Unix, C vs. Pascal, C vs. FORTRAN, etc., ad nauseam. The characteristic that distinguishes holy wars from normal technical disputes is that in a holy war most of the participants spend their time trying to pass off personal value choices and cultural attachments as objective technical evaluations. See also theology." - jargon, node: holy wars

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"
holy wars /n./ [from Usenet, but may predate it] /n./ flame wars over religious issues. The paper by Danny Cohen that popularized the terms big-endian and little-endian in connection with the LSB-first/MSB-first controversy was entitled "On Holy Wars and a Plea for Peace". Other perennial Holy Wars have included EMACS vs. vi, my personal computer vs. everyone else's personal computer, ITS vs. Unix, Unix vs. VMS, BSD Unix vs. USG Unix, C vs. Pascal, C vs. FORTRAN, etc., ad nauseam. The characteristic that distinguishes holy wars from normal technical disputes is that in a holy war most of the participants spend their time trying to pass off personal value choices and cultural attachments as objective technical evaluations. See also theology." - jargon, node: holy wars