Why the NT is Historically and Theologically not acceptable for Torath Mosheh Jews

[Skywalker]

Neither what Christians say about it means that's what it teaches.

I wasn't saying that the rabbis I quoted are infallible, I was saying that I believe that within Judaism, there are hints that Christ is the Messiah.

 

[Rival]

I wasn't saying that the rabbis I quoted are infallible, I was saying that I believe that within Judaism, there are hints that Christ is the Messiah.

Muslims also see Muhammad in the Bible. It's all just as nonsensical.

 

[Skywalker]

Muslims also see Muhammad in the Bible. It's all just as nonsensical.

Without doubt, we find many truths in extra biblical material. The difficulty is determining which are truth and which bits are a deviation from the truth of scripture and the Holy Spirit.

 

[Rival]

Without doubt, we find many truths in extra biblical material. The difficulty is determining which are truth and which bits are a deviation from the truth of scripture and the Holy Spirit.

I'm not talking about extra Biblical stuff. Muslims find Muhammad prophesied in the Bible.

 

[Skywalker]

I'm not talking about extra Biblical stuff. Muslims find Muhammad prophesied in the Bible.

We are talking about different concepts-people's beliefs agreeing with what the Bible teaches, and people who misunderstand what the Bible teaches. Is the “The Suffering Servant” prophecy in Isaiah 53 about Jesus? | GotQuestions.org

Unfortunately, modern Rabbis of Judaism believe that the “Suffering Servant” of Isaiah 53 refers perhaps to Israel, or to Isaiah himself, or even Moses or another of the Jewish prophets. But Isaiah is clear - he speaks of the Messiah, as many ancient rabbis concluded.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

When, by the way, the "call from God" was pushed aside by those who were Biblically in that covenant relationship with the God of Israel, there were often some pretty serious consequences.

The call has never been pushed aside.

In every generation of the People of Israel, the core heats up, and the fringe falls off. You will find plenty of Jews today who are faithful to our covenant with Hashem.

Part of our duty is to reject false messiahs, such as Jesus.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Job was a follower of the Messiah of Israel and he lived during the days of the Old Covenant.

We've beeen through this before. Not every mention of the Redeemer means messiah. The Redeeemer is God, who is not a man.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The Oral Torah is traditions that don't necessarily agree with what the Old Testament teaches.

Hardly. The whole purpose of Oral Torah is to make obeying the Torah possible and easier.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Parables are not "exaggerations", they are stories meant to hide the kingdom from those without ears to hear (Is 6:9).

Nah. They are simply teaching stories, much like fables. I personally never found them difficult to understand. They are only difficult if 1. your thinking is too concrete or 2. you are a decidedly not very spiritual person. I mean, like, the Good Samaritan? You think that's hard to understand?

 

[Skywalker]

We've beeen through this before. Not every mention of the Redeemer means messiah. The Redeeemer is God, who is not a man.

Numbers 23 and 1 Samuel 15 say God is not a man. God is invisible and cannot be seen, and yet He's seen at different times. The elders of Israel-74 people, see the God of Israel on Mount Sinai, in Exodus the 24th chapter. How is it that God is unseen and yet seen? It's through his Son. He's complex in His unity. The memra is a reference to God being complex in His unity.

 

[Skywalker]

Hardly. The whole purpose of Oral Torah is to make obeying the Torah possible and easier.

I have no problem with the Torah, my problem is with the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees, who interpreted the Torah. The lies lie within the interpretation and implementation, whether written or oral.

 

[YoursTrue]

I'm responding to Skywalker. I quoted him, so I'm not sure why you didn't get that?

Because I don't read every post all the time, so when the original post is not quoted, I'm not sure.

 

[YoursTrue]

Which line? Me having a good day, the need to keep commandments or post-death punishments?

perhaps the post death punishments. The Tanach explains that death IS the punishment. No matter we sin a little or a lot.

 

[YoursTrue]

a. This is all very nice for Romans, but we were talking about Revelation. Different books, you see.

b. I see. This must be some of that "progressive revelation" Christians claim is a thing in the bible. Though Tanach doesn't indicate that a Jew who doesn't keep the commandments is no longer a Jew, comes Paul, who we all know was the wisest, most righteous man of his generation, and teaches us: whoops, here's a secret Hashem never bothered to tell the other Jews!
Yep, 1200 years or so of delusions.
Fine, so it's not replacement theology. It just goes entirely against the Tanach.

Speaking of secrets and not telling, did Moses' fellow Hebrews always believe Moses?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I have no problem with the Torah, my problem is with the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducees, who interpreted the Torah. The lies lie within the interpretation and implementation, whether written or oral.

Then you have problems with the Torah, since it is Deuteronomy 17:8-13 which gives the Judges/Pharisees/Rabbis authority.

 

[YoursTrue]

Nor did I say that you said that.

Exactly, you're proving my point. Two Jews- three opinions. Two Christians- ten opinions and 30-year long wars.

Again... Is there any chance that when replying to a remark, you may quote the post you are responding to?

 

[YoursTrue]

Then you have problems with the Torah, since it is Deuteronomy 17:8-13 which gives the Judges/Pharisees/Rabbis authority.

Is there any chance you can quote the post you're responding to? All you have to do is press 'reply'.

 

[Skywalker]

Then you have problems with the Torah, since it is Deuteronomy 17:8-13 which gives the Judges/Pharisees/Rabbis authority.

Just like pastors and priests, they can interpret the scripture the incorrect way. They are not infallible. Some Jewish rabbis teach reincarnation, which is pagan. Psalm 23:6 Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

 

[Harel13]

Again... Is there any chance that when replying to a remark, you may quote the post you are responding to?

Oh, now I get it. You have @Skywalker on ignore. That's why you can't tell who @Rival, @IndigoChild5559 and I are replying to. We're all quoting who we're replying to. You just can't see that portion of our posts because of the ignore feature.

 

[Harel13]

perhaps the post death punishments. The Tanach explains that death IS the punishment. No matter we sin a little or a lot.

Not interested in debating. You asked, I answered.

Speaking of secrets and not telling, did Moses' fellow Hebrews always believe Moses?

As noted in my previous post (919), you have Skywalker on ignore. Most of the posts here aren't directed at you. While it's no sin to query posts directed at other people, I think perhaps you should momentarily unignore Skywalker to understand exactly how our debates on this thread have been going on before asking questions. Just a suggestion.