Ah, yes, Mickey Mouse's dog.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
One world order
- Thread starter Riders
- Start date
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It was only His job to each His disciples who would carry His message far and wide and teach others.
It was not HIS Job to convince people of who He was, it is humanity's job to recognize who He was.
Baha'u'llah was given a mission by God, just as Jesus was given a mission, and it was in no way a part of His mission to convince people of who He was... I guess you never heard of free will that God gave us so we could choose. We have a choice what to believe and because of that we are fully responsible for the choices we make. If the Christ convinced us that would interfere with that free choice.
“He who shall accept and believe, shall receive his reward; and he who shall turn away, shall receive none other than his own punishment.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 339
How many people believe something means absolutely NOTHING. You are committing the fallacy of argumentum ad populum.
In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so." <i>Argumentum ad populum</i>
The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.
Matthew 7:13-14 Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
Aupmanyav
Be your own guru
Why would humanity accept Bahaollah as a messenger of God when he cannot provide any proof of his mission?
That is fear-mongering. What punishment will be received by people who do not accept him? You say your God is all love and peace - and he does not even claim to have a hell.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
He did provide proof.
“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106
You are living in ancient times when a teacher could talk to only to a small group of people around him.
It is true that it is humanity's job to recognize him, but it looks like not that many have accepted Bahaullah yet and it has already been over a 100 years. But it is OK if you still live in hope.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's right, He attended no schools. He got His knowledge from God, who is All-Knowing.
“O KING! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow.The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred.”” Proclamation of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 57
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Baha’u’llah did not live in ancient times, He lived in contemporary times, but still He could only talk to a few around Him. I already told you that it was not Baha’u’llah’s job to convince people of who He was. His only job was to garner a few disciples who would carry His message to others and after that His message would be passed down from generation to generation.
Why do you think that the returning Christ would be responsible to convince people of who He was? Was Jesus responsible to convince anyone except His disciples?
I do not have to have hope that people will recognize Baha’u’llah because how many people recognize Baha’u’llah has absolutely no bearing on who He was. Even if only one person recognized Him, He would still be the return of Christ and the Messiah because it was God who sent Him.
Again, how many people believe something has nothing to do with whether it is true or not. That is the fallacy of argumentum ad populum.
Below are the seven logical reasons why more people have not recognized Baha’u’llah, yet.
1. Many people have never heard of the Baha’i Faith, so they do not know there is something to look for. It is the responsibility of the Baha’is to get the message out, so if that is not happening, the Baha’is are to blame. However, there are so few Baha’is and they are busy building the New World Order, and there is only so much time, so they can only do so much.
2. But even after people know about the Baha’i Faith, most people are not even willing to look the evidence in order to determine if it is true or not.
3. Even if they are willing to look at the evidence, there is a lot of prejudice before even getting out the door to look at the evidence.
4. 84% of people in the world already have a religion and they are happy with their religion so they have no interest in a “new religion.”
5. The rest of the world’s population is agnostics or atheists or believers who are prejudiced against all religion.
6. Agnostics or atheists and atheists and believers who have no religion either do not believe that God communicates via Messengers or they find fault with the Messenger, Baha’u’llah.
7. Baha’u’llah brought new teachings and laws that are very different from the older religions so many people are suspicious of those teachings and/or don’t like the laws because some laws require them to give things up that they like doing.
Do you think God cares if the Baha’i Faith is still relatively small? God does not need people to believe in His new religion because God has no needs. However, there will come a time when everyone will knows about Baha’u’llah just as everyone now knows about Jesus because eventually God will exalt His Cause and magnify His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.
“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth. Place, in all circumstances, Thy whole trust in Thy Lord, and fix Thy gaze upon Him, and turn away from all them that repudiate His truth. Let God, Thy Lord, be Thy sufficing succorer and helper. We have pledged Ourselves to secure Thy triumph upon earth and to exalt Our Cause above all men, though no king be found who would turn his face towards Thee.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 248-249
Those were ancient times. Today he would have twitter/facebook followers and in a TV appearance, he could talk to millions at once. He would not need intermediaries.
Good luck! Great to be a Messiah not know by anyone (or just few)! He might as well have not come. Jesus and Muhammad on the other hand have influenced over a billion people each.
Jesus is different kind of king, because he came to set people free.
The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to … …set at liberty them that are bruised,
Luke 4:18
and by him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Acts 13:39
By what I know, most of politicians are against nationalism, which makes them all supporters of the one world government. But, unfortunately, I have not enough time to seek all evidence for that. It would be interesting to see how many relevant politicians you would find that are against the idea of one world government.
I don’t see Biden saying anything own nowadays. It seems like his puppet masters are afraid he would mistakenly speak the truth. However, by what I know Biden has authored a paper ‘On The Threshold Of The New World Order’, which indicates he wants one world government.
Putin seems to be against it, at least because all most the rest of the world seems to against him and Russia. It would explain well why western world seems to desire war with Russia.
exchemist
Veteran Member
Most politicians are against nationalism? Trump? Xi? Putin? Bolsonaro? Erdogan? Orban? Johnson? Modi? All these are notorious for being nationalists.
You must read different newspapers from me
.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And that is what Jesus did, He set us free, according to my beliefs.
“…those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties—were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, “I gave My blood for the life of the world” 6 —that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins” Some Answered Questions, p. 125
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It is not a matter of what he would need, it is a matter of what he would use. He could use the media if he wanted to but that is not how Messengers of God operate. They do not want to be obvious because in that case the wheat could not be separated from the chaff.
Do you know anything about the history of religion and how long it takes for a religion to spread?
Jesus and Muhammad have influenced over a billion people each, but Jesus declared His mission 1991 years ago, and Muhammad declared His mission 1411 years ago, whereas Baha'u'llah only declared His mission 158 years ago.
By my calculations, Christianity has been around 12.6 times as long as the Baha'i Faith.
By my calculations, Islam has been around 8.9 times as long as the Baha'i Faith.
First of all, I find anyone who is against Christ is anti-Christ and Not any one person - 1 John 2:18,22; 3 John 1:7
So, genuine Christians do Not believe in any coming of any anti-Christ particular person.
Rather, the ' final signal,' so to speak, is found at 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3.
When the powers that be are saying, " Peace and Security..." what that will mean for 'Christendom '(pretence Christians) is that the political will surprisingly turn on the religious world.
With a bad economy the wealth the religions have amassed could be easy taking by the political, even easy through the banking system.
The Bible speaks of one organization aka 'God's kingdom' (Thy kingdom come.....) - Daniel 2:44
Praying or asking for God's Kingdom to come will prove to be one world government over Earth for a thousand years.
With Jesus being King (ruler) of God's Kingdom over Earth Jesus will accomplish subduing enemies - Psalms 110.
This subduing is beneficial because it will bring relief to Earth and its inhabitants.
* No more war - Psalms 46:9; Micah 4:3-4
* A healthy 'healing' environment for earth's nations - Revelation 22:2; Isaiah 33:24
* Earth will be beautiful as described in Isaiah 35th chapter.
* There will be happiness in enjoyable work for us - Isaiah 65:22-23
* Even ' enemy death ' will then be No more on Earth - 1 Corinthians 15:24-26; Isaiah 25:8
They operate in whatever way they think is best to spread their message. They don't care how someone else has done it before or how some person thinks they should.
You are still stuck in the past. This is a globalized, interconnected, instant communication world. Old history where Jesus could just talk with people within a radius of a few miles does not apply any more.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
How would you know that a Messenger of God would operate that way? Has any Messenger of God in the past tried to spread His message? No. That is how we know that is not their goal.
You still are not getting it. How fast a religion grows and thus how large a religion becomes has nothing to do with the Messenger of God who revealed that religion, since the Messenger is not the one who carries his message to humanity. All he does is garner a few disciples and those disciples carry the message in the first generation, and then those they teach continue teaching the message from generation to generation, and thereby the religion grows larger.
I was waiting for this reply and I was ready. Because this is an interconnected, instant communication world, the message of Baha’u’llah has spread 664 times as fast as Christianity during the first century.
At the end of the first century there were only 7,530 Christians whereas at the end of the first century there were five million Baha’is. If more Baha’is would get of their duffs and teach the Faith there would be a lot more Baha’is by now.
In the heroic age of the Baha’i Faith before we had mass communications or the internet the Baha’i Faith grew a lot faster than it is growing now, and that can be explained by the human element, the willingness of the Baha’is to make the necessary sacrifices to see the Faith grow.
Statistics show that from 1910-2010, the Baha’i Faith grew at a rate of 3.54%, whereas during that time Islam grew at a rate of 1.97% and Christianity grew at a rate of 1.32%.
From 2000-2010 Islam became the fastest growing religion (1.86 %) and the Baha’i Faith was the second fastest growing religion (1.72%).
Statistics from: Growth of religion
The growth rates of the Baha’i Faith were higher than Islam from 1910 to 2010 because it includes the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944) FOURTH PERIOD: THE INCEPTION OF THE FORMATIVE AGE OF THE BAHÁ’Í FAITH 1921–1944
The goal of the Baha’i Faith administration has not always been to increase numbers of adherents but rather to expand to as many locations as possible around the world. These goals have been met. The Baha’i Faith has spread to over 250 countries and territories and is almost as widespread as Christianity. Most of this happened during the “formative age” of the Baha’i Faith (1921-1944)
Growth of the Baha’i Faith has slowed down since 2000 because the new goal is consolidation and community building, so the emphasis is not spreading the Faith all over the world as it was before in the 20th century. I think it is really sad that teaching the Faith is no longer the primary goal, but I have nothing to say about how the Baha’i Administration functions.
What are talking about? Jesus told many parables, gave a sermon, recited beatitudes - that was his message. Muhammad wrote a whole book. Bahaullah of course is not in that class.
This was true in the old days when a single person could not broadcast his message to the world. Nowadays there is not need of intermediaries. A new 'Messenger' can broadcast his message in realtime to the whole world without any middlemen. You are living in the past and telling yourself thousand year old stories.
In any case, the Bahai faith will never reach the number of people that Christianity or Islam has done whatever the annual rate of increase in recent years may be. You can of course dream about it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But they were not trying to spread their messages, except to those who they came in contact with, primarily their disciples.
That’s laughable. Jesus never even wrote anything, the gospels were was passed down through oral tradition and written down decades later, so there is no way to know what Jesus really said.
Muhammad did not write anything either, but at least we know that the Qur’an was dictated to scribes who either memorized what He said or wrote it down so we know they were what Muhammad said.
If you are referring to what Baha’u’llah wrote, Baha’u’llah is far, far above that class because He wrote over 15,000 Tablets in His own pen, and those are only the Tablets that survived, as a vast majority of His Tablets were tossed into the Tigris River.
“So prolific was this period, that during the first two years after His return from His retirement, according to the testimony of Nabíl, who was at that time living in Baghdád, the unrecorded verses that streamed from His lips averaged, in a single day and night, the equivalent of the Qur’án! As to those verses which He either dictated or wrote Himself, their number was no less remarkable than either the wealth of material they contained, or the diversity of subjects to which they referred. A vast, and indeed the greater, proportion of these writings were, alas, lost irretrievably to posterity. No less an authority than MírzáÁqá Ján, Bahá’u’lláh’s amanuensis, affirms, as reported by Nabíl, that by the express order of Bahá’u’lláh, hundreds of thousands of verses, mostly written by His own hand, were obliterated and cast into the river. “Finding me reluctant to execute His orders,” MírzáÁqá Ján has related to Nabíl, “Bahá’u’lláh would reassure me saying: ‘None is to be found at this time worthy to hear these melodies.’ …Not once, or twice, but innumerable times, was I commanded to repeat this act.”God Passes By, pp. 137-138
Not all of Baha’u’llah’s Writings have been translated into English, only about 15% have been translated thus far. All the books that are available in English are in the Baha’i Reference Library online.
The Works of Bahá'u'lláh
A real Messenger of God would NEVER broadcast His message to the whole world through the media. That is what televangelists do.
If that is what you are waiting for you will be waiting till hell freezes over.Unless you are a Prophet who can predict the future you have no way of knowing what is going to happen with the Baha’i Faith, but like I said before, it does not matter how large the Baha’i Faith is because the truth is the truth and numbers are no indication of what is the truth.
Only an illogical person would think that how man people believe in a religion is any indication of whether or not it is true.
In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."
This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, <i>Argumentum ad populum</i>
Examples
This fallacy is sometimes committed while trying to convince a person that a widely popular thought is true or that they're wrong because all the rest do otherwise.
- Billions believe in my religious belief.
The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe in a religion, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.
Jesus addressed every person who gathered around him. Muhammad went to war to spread his message across the region. In today's world, Muhammad would have probably started a global war to spread his message. Like I said Bahaullah is not in their class.
Yes, like 'Wisdom of the Crowds'! It is arrogance to believe that a small group of people know better than everyone else.