Atheists what should God do to make you believe in ?

[Dave Watchman]

But you must have some sort of concept to blame him (is it a him?) for not curing sick children.

Who exactly isn't curing children?
What is the nature of this god that's not doing anything to help anyone?

Using the term god doesn't clarify what you mean since there are so many types of god, it needs to be more distinct.

This is why I've said in the past that the Atheist, many Atheists, do acknowledge that there IS a God, but He's not the God that they want Him to be.

I've only gotten thus far in the thread, but I see the same string of vernacular, like the EKR five stages of grief.

The dialect of the Atheist, recognizable also in the William Nye video, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

Bill Nye quickly gets into the real crux of the matter,: if there is a God, do we have to do what He says?

Just a portion of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the ones we lost.

Tools to help us frame and identify what they may be feeling.

I almost felt it watching this movie yesterday.

I'll put the link in anyway in case any has the time.

Cheap movie, good free movie player, but well written by one of the writers of Star Trek.

About a guy who claims to have lived 14000 years. His cells never degenerate. Should be able to just click the link and slide the bar to 51 minutes in.

He claimed to have known famous people from history. He claimed to have been Jesus, and that the whole thing WAS a hoax. They tried to kill him 2000 years ago but they couldn't. It makes the Christian woman cry. That feeling of total despair, like those who grieve like there is no hope.

I felt it a bit in this scene.

I thought, "that must be how it feels, to grieve like those who have no hope.

This might work:

The Man From Earth (2007)​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Pretty much the same sort of things that it takes to convince me that anything exists.

So, first, a clear definition of the properties that are claimed for 'God'.

Then, a phenomenon predicted from the assumption of existence that is different than what is predicted from the default of non-existence. This should be a phenomenon that is sufficient to prove essential parts of the definition.

Then an actual observation of that phenomenon.

I have yet to see a clear definition or a description of a phenomenon that doesn't have an easier explanation without resorting to supernatural beings.

So if a guy comes along and can do some magic tricks, the right magic tricks, you will be convinced?

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.​

What if he causes fire to fall from heaven?

"He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.​

The Old Time Jews were asking for signs, but no signs were given.

Except for the sign of the Son of Man.

In three days He will raise IT up.

Like the sign of Jonah.

But then it's too late.

All the tribes of the earth will mourn.

"After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Polymath257]

So if a guy comes along and can do some magic tricks, the right magic tricks, you will be convinced?

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and will provide great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.​

Like raising people from the dead? No. That shows some remarkable powers, but isn't enough to demonstrate, for example, that the person is the creator of the universe or even knows about such a creator.

What if he causes fire to fall from heaven?

"He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.​

Well, meteors could be mistaken for such. Other than that, do you have any evidence that this actually happened? And, even if it did, how would that prove the existence of a God?

The Old Time Jews were asking for signs, but no signs were given.

Except for the sign of the Son of Man.

In three days He will raise IT up.

Like the sign of Jonah.

But then it's too late.

All the tribes of the earth will mourn.

"After two days he will revive us;
on the third day he will restore us,
that we may live in his presence.​

Peaceful Sabbath.

Sounds like a lot of excuses for having nothing.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Another example on the opposite side would be if I asked the christian the same thing, his or her concept of god is, well, jesus christ. Jesus christ was human so it's easier for me to give a definition of that particular "god" because I have interacted with humans before.

I wonder why is it you seem to make an effort NOT to capatalise:

christian god

christian

jesus

christ.

christ

christian

But you would capitalize other names.

Even login names, Unveiled Artist, and the first word in a sentence.

It's not a biggie.

I usually capitalize Atheist out of simple respect for it being an organized belief system.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[ChristineM]

usually capitalize Atheist out of simple respect for it being an organized belief system.

Actually, disbelief system and with little or no organisation

 

[Dave Watchman]

Other than that, do you have any evidence that this actually happened? And, even if it did, how would that prove the existence of a God?

It didn't.

I'm told that it will.

But when it does, most people will be deceived by it.

Just before the second coming of Christ, the Antichrist will come, and will deceive the majority with magic tricks, with signs, that he is given the power to do.

Sounds like a lot of excuses for having nothing.

You could figure it out if you wanted to.

The math is simple, but has an unmistakable fingerprint.

But it's spooky to count the bricks from the inside of the Temple.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Trailblazer]

The problem with prophecies is that whether Christian, Bahai, or other faith is that they all fail by rational standards. I have seen Bahai prophecies. I was not impressed.

They fail by your standards because you have certain expectations that no prophecies were ever designed to meet, yet the prophecies were indeed fulfilled on the ground, and that is provable by history.

That the prophecies were indeed fulfilled on the ground means that what prophecies say will happen did happen.

 

[Polymath257]

It didn't.

I'm told that it will.

But when it does, most people will be deceived by it.

Just before the second coming of Christ, the Antichrist will come, and will deceive the majority with magic tricks, with signs, that he is given the power to do.

So...no actual evidence, just a promise of evidence in the future? OK, I can wait for the actual evidence.

You could figure it out if you wanted to.

The math is simple, but has an unmistakable fingerprint.

But it's spooky to count the bricks from the inside of the Temple.

Peaceful Sabbath.

Numerology isn't impressive.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I wonder why is it you seem to make an effort NOT to capatalise:

But you would capitalize other names.

Even login names, Unveiled Artist, and the first word in a sentence.

It's not a biggie.

I usually capitalize Atheist out of simple respect for it being an organized belief system.

Peaceful Sabbath.

That's odd. I never thought to capitalize atheist since it's not a religion no more than capitalizing theist or human being or anything of that nature. I don't think I caps hinduism and buddhism either.

Why is it specific to christian words?

Are you talking "only" about english grammar or is there something much more deeper point you're making?

 

[Trailblazer]

Or maybe we know he/she/it doesnt exist... just an an alternative know

You can choose to believe that if you want to but you can never prove it, not anymore than I can prove that He does exist.
But if God exists and is omnipotent, He only does whatever he chooses to do, not what we want Him to do, unless He wants what we want, in which case we get what we want.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Actually, disbelief system and with little or no organisation

It is not a system.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You can choose to believe that if you want to but you can never prove it, not anymore than I can prove that He does exist.
But if God exists and is omnipotent, He only does whatever he chooses to do, not what we want Him to do, unless He wants what we want, in which case we get what we want.

So how do you know, that God exists?

 

[Dave Watchman]

Actually, disbelief system and with little or no organisation

Sure it does.

Sure you do.

No need to be bashful.

You have your heroes of the lecture circus, your celebrities, your Atheistic apologists.

Atheists deny that God exists. Yet for an atheist to make our ranking of the 50 top atheists in the world—given in ascending order—it is not enough merely to deny that God exists. More is required.

Certainty. To make our list, someone has to be very sure of him- or herself. No mere agnostics will do. To make the cut, one has to do more than merely question God’s existence or even deny that knowledge of God’s existence is possible.

Celebrity is another requirement. To make our list, the atheist must have a public identification with atheism and must have made some public impact by challenging religion and/or promoting atheism, either in print or on the Internet. In other words, our ranking is a list of people who are well known because they are atheists, among other things—as opposed to people who are mainly famous for some other reason (like Jodie Foster or Bruce Willis). In a few cases, a person has made the list mainly on the basis of his or her attack on free will and morality—the foundation of the traditional religious view of human beings—so long as the person has also publicly identified as an atheist.

50 Top Atheists in the World Today
​

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ehm, atheist, look up the definition

What does the definition of atheist have to do with this?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This is why I've said in the past that the Atheist, many Atheists, do acknowledge that there IS a God, but He's not the God that they want Him to be.

I've only gotten thus far in the thread, but I see the same string of vernacular, like the EKR five stages of grief.

The dialect of the Atheist, recognizable also in the William Nye video, denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance.

Bill Nye quickly gets into the real crux of the matter,: if there is a God, do we have to do what He says?

Just a portion of the framework that makes up our learning to live with the ones we lost.

Tools to help us frame and identify what they may be feeling.

I almost felt it watching this movie yesterday.

I'll put the link in anyway in case any has the time.

Cheap movie, good free movie player, but well written by one of the writers of Star Trek.

About a guy who claims to have lived 14000 years. His cells never degenerate. Should be able to just click the link and slide the bar to 51 minutes in.

He claimed to have known famous people from history. He claimed to have been Jesus, and that the whole thing WAS a hoax. They tried to kill him 2000 years ago but they couldn't. It makes the Christian woman cry. That feeling of total despair, like those who grieve like there is no hope.

I felt it a bit in this scene.

I thought, "that must be how it feels, to grieve like those who have no hope.

This might work:

The Man From Earth (2007)​

Peaceful Sabbath.

I'm not sure what you're saying. Are you saying atheists are going through the grieving process towards not believing in god?

I know people can blame concepts of anything but my point to Christine was that saying "god should do this or that" means nothing if the words and concepts of the sentence and her point cannot be clarified. It's like christians talking about god and assuming every person the speak with (atheist and not) are on the same page just because they use the term god.

Kind of like saying, "I blame Zatieta for not stopping wars"...
"who on earth is Zatieta?"
well, "it's up for Zatieta to define himself not me."

(Burden of proof argument)

But as for them not believing in a god they don't want to, I got another insight awhile back is most people don't know about other gods just the one they are familiar with. So, it's hard to say an atheist doesn't believe in Vishnu, or a pagan god, or so have you because they know nothing about them. It really isn't their fault, I guess you can say. Of course I'm generalizing atheists for sake of making a point, but I'm not sure how it relates to the grieving process.

 

[ChristineM]

That's odd. I never thought to capitalize atheist since it's not a religion no more than capitalizing theist or human being or anything of that nature. I don't think I caps hinduism and buddhism either.

Why is it specific to christian words?

Are you talking "only" about english grammar or is there something much more deeper point you're making?

Proper nouns are not c

You can choose to believe that if you want to but you can never prove it, not anymore than I can prove that He does exist.
But if God exists and is omnipotent, He only does whatever he chooses to do, not what we want Him to do, unless He wants what we want, in which case we get what we want.

So back to the old knowing/believing argument.

And again you are thinking for your god, wassup, can't he think for himself? Or us it just coincidence that he thinks exactly what you think?

I am quite happy with the lack of proof having meaning

 

[Dave Watchman]

That's odd. I never thought to capitalize atheist since it's not a religion no more than capitalizing theist or human being or anything of that nature. I don't think I caps hinduism and buddhism either.

Why is it specific to christian words?

Are you talking "only" about english grammar or is there something much more deeper point you're making?

Jesus is a name.

Christ is a name.

Will you capitalize Tom, Dick and or Harry?

But seem to go out of your way NOT to capitalize Jesus, Christ or the Abrahamic God?

That's what I'm asking you.

Is there a hidden point you attempt to make?

A subconscious slip of the keyboard?

I'm asking also because my read is that when this God does reveal Himself, I read many, the majority, will make war with Him.

Has Armageddon with the God concept began already?

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Jesus is a name.

Christ is a name.

Will you capitalize Tom, Dick and or Harry?

But seem to go out of your way NOT to capitalize Jesus, Christ or the Abrahamic God?

That's what I'm asking you.

Is there a hidden point you attempt to make?

A subconscious slip of the keyboard?

I'm asking also because my read is that when this God does reveal Himself, I read many, the majority, will make war with Him.

Has Armageddon with the God concept began already?

Peaceful Sabbath.

I actually thought the first question you asked was pretty genuine since I never did caps jesus name (or the autocorrect did it for me), god, and all of that. It has nothing to do with christians and so forth cause I wasn't raised that way. Nor has it to do with RF or any of that nonsense.

I think you're putting more into this than what it is. A lot.

I'm asking also because my read is that when this God does reveal Himself, I read many, the majority, will make war with Him.

What does this mean to people who don't believe such a thing?

Christians can confirm each other's biases by saying the world is coming to an end if they don't have christ, but when speaking in a interfaith forum with people all over the world, people just don't take that lead by default. To many of the population, what you're saying is irrelevant to their understanding of life.

I mean, I have a christian co-worker and her sister talk about how the covid issue, weird weather patterns, and so forth are signs that christ is comming. We've had these things for years-so if it makes them feel better about god, so be... however, I wouldn't get too round up with other people's views of your god.

 

[ChristineM]

Sure it does.

Sure you do.

No need to be bashful.

You have your heroes of the lecture circus, your celebrities, your Atheistic apologists.

Atheists deny that God exists. Yet for an atheist to make our ranking of the 50 top atheists in the world—given in ascending order—it is not enough merely to deny that God exists. More is required.

Certainty. To make our list, someone has to be very sure of him- or herself. No mere agnostics will do. To make the cut, one has to do more than merely question God’s existence or even deny that knowledge of God’s existence is possible.

Celebrity is another requirement. To make our list, the atheist must have a public identification with atheism and must have made some public impact by challenging religion and/or promoting atheism, either in print or on the Internet. In other words, our ranking is a list of people who are well known because they are atheists, among other things—as opposed to people who are mainly famous for some other reason (like Jodie Foster or Bruce Willis). In a few cases, a person has made the list mainly on the basis of his or her attack on free will and morality—the foundation of the traditional religious view of human beings—so long as the person has also publicly identified as an atheist.

50 Top Atheists in the World Today
​

Peaceful Sabbath.

Read the definition and understand it before dictating to people you know nothing about but you believe you know who they are because you have been told by people who know nothing about atheism but wishful thinking

 

[Vinayaka]

Some God who can't wave his magic finger and make people believe in him. Ya'd think an all powerful all seeing God could do that ... easily. An all powerful God could also just kill all the atheists, leaving only theists.

Perhaps he/she ain't so all-powerful after all.