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Evangelicals reckoning: Donald Trump & future of our faith

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Some have seen too many political threads on RF. But I've asserted that they're intertwined for better and worse. This is one example of why I have my opinion.

This thread starts with the perspective of the role evangelicals have played in supporting and enabling Trump but it can apply elsewhere including the role extremist Muslims play in blasphemy cases, fanatical Hindus are playing in India, the role of extreme right wing Jews play in the middle-east and so forth.

I'm far from being an evangelical Christian, but I do agree with his analysis because I've seen them kowtow to Trump to get anti-abortion, anti-gay rhetoric and conservative economic policies they support while ignoring the clear message in the two greatest commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.

I've bold faced a couple of sentences that to me said it all.

Evangelicals face a reckoning: Donald Trump and the future of our faith

First, far too many tolerated egregious behavior.

The past half decade has offered near daily examples of people co-opting the gospel for sinful ends. Racism, nationalism, sexism, and host of other sins have found purchase within the evangelical movement in both overt and subtle expressions. Many have been able to dismiss these examples as outliers that did not truly represent the evangelical movement. We have long since exhausted this excuse.

As evangelicals, we have to stop saying this isn't who we are. This is who we are; these are our besetting sins.

Second, far too many failed to live up to their promise of speaking truth to power.

During the 2016 election, and at many points since, many evangelicals justified their full-throated support by promising to be a check on Trump’s character. What has become apparent is that this promise was hollow.

Too few were willing to speak out regularly and often couched their criticism so much it lacked any weight. When evangelicals finally had access to the White House, they seemed unable or unwilling to use their prophetic voice to speak truth to power.
...
Will we look inside and repent when needed, or will we double down? Every political and cultural instinct will pull us to the latter but God calls us to the former. But into this temptation we hear the words of Jesus: “For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world and forfeits his soul?” (Matthew 16:26).

We have reached a reckoning. What comes next will reveal where our trust truly lies.
 

Reddwarffan

Member
First, far too many tolerated egregious behavior.

I am curious what "egregious behavior" you are referring to. (Not trying to argue at this point, I honestly do not know what you are referring to. I would like to understand the basis for the claim.)
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
We ought not to take up a collective condemnation of evangelicals.

Sider, who edited the book, is a longtime evangelical figure and an advocate for biblical solutions to social and economic injustices. He has published over 40 books, including Rich Christians in an Age of Hunger.

Sider said that his call is for white evangelicals to evaluate evangelicalism’s “biblically balanced” agenda before they vote in 2020.
The book, titled, The Spiritual Danger of Donald Trump: 30 Evangelical Christians on Justice, Truth, and Moral Integrity, also warns of the damage done to how Americans perceive evangelicals as a result of their alliance with Trump's messaging.
30 evangelical leaders beg Christians to rethink their support for Trump in new book - Raw Story - Celebrating 16 Years of Independent Journalism
 

PureX

Veteran Member
I'm far from being an evangelical Christian, but I do agree with his analysis because I've seen them kowtow to Trump to get anti-abortion, anti-gay rhetoric and conservative economic policies they support while ignoring the clear message in the two greatest commandments and the Sermon on the Mount.
What these people fail to recognize; and in fact, refuse to recognize, is that when they seek to subjugate and oppress their neighbors for whatever reasons (religious or otherwise) they place themselves in alignment and agreement with those who seek to subjugate and oppress their fellow humans for their own gain/agenda. They BECOME them. They become the means they employ. And they are not absolved of that sin by the presumed righteousness of their intentions. As they seem to think.
 

Wandering Monk

Well-Known Member
Many evangelical have an apocalyptic world view, that the world is about the enter the end times.
Everything that happens gets filtered through the lens that Satan is trying to take control of the world via media, politics, other religion and so on. Everyone who is not in their camp is somehow complicit in this.

You can see how they have no way to connect with reality when everyone they encounter and everything they hear that is from outside their world view is probably evil or complicit with these attempts. Facts that go contrary to their perception are lies from the devil.

One would hope that the events of last week would cause them to walk back from the precipice and indeed some seem to have done so. I hope this trend continues.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Pence is sometimes credited with having made Trump respectable in the eyes of Evangelical leaders. If so, I wonder if Trump throwing Pence under the bus will have any effect on their support for Trump.
 

Brickjectivity

Brickish Brat
Staff member
Premium Member
Many evangelical have an apocalyptic world view, that the world is about the enter the end times.
Everything that happens gets filtered through the lens that Satan is trying to take control of the world via media, politics, other religion and so on. Everyone who is not in their camp is somehow complicit in this.

You can see how they have no way to connect with reality when everyone they encounter and everything they hear that is from outside their world view is probably evil or complicit with these attempts. Facts that go contrary to their perception are lies from the devil.

One would hope that the events of last week would cause them to walk back from the precipice and indeed some seem to have done so. I hope this trend continues.
The further we get away from WWII and the duplicity of segregation, the less strength that kind of thing (belief that Satan wants to have a world government) is likely to have. I see a change that's been happening. We're still under the influence of those two things, but I think evangelicals are getting closer to release.
 

Reddwarffan

Member
Pence is sometimes credited with having made Trump respectable in the eyes of Evangelical leaders. If so, I wonder if Trump throwing Pence under the bus will have any effect on their support for Trump.

Err what? I am not following every detail religiously, but isn´t it Pence who threw Trump under the bus, not the other way round?
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I am curious what "egregious behavior" you are referring to. (Not trying to argue at this point, I honestly do not know what you are referring to. I would like to understand the basis for the claim.)
That's the statement in the opinion piece

We reap what Trump has sown
He has burned down the Republican Party, emboldened white supremacists, mainstreamed conspiracy theorists and more.

Yet of greater concern for me is the trail of destruction he has left within the evangelical movement. Tempted by power and trapped within a culture war theology, too many evangelicals tied their fate to a man who embodied neither their faith nor their vision of political character.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Err what? I am not following every detail religiously, but isn´t it Pence who threw Trump under the bus, not the other way round?
Pence followed the law. Trump and the terrorist mob took it out on him for being law-abiding.
 

Reddwarffan

Member
That's the statement in the opinion piece

We reap what Trump has sown
He has burned down the Republican Party, emboldened white supremacists, mainstreamed conspiracy theorists and more.

Yet of greater concern for me is the trail of destruction he has left within the evangelical movement. Tempted by power and trapped within a culture war theology, too many evangelicals tied their fate to a man who embodied neither their faith nor their vision of political character.

OK, I see what you mean. I have no problem with him to "burn down" one of the corrupt establishment parties, and I think the claim about "white supremacists" and "conspiracy theorists" is fake news, but that is another discussion.

Trump followed through on his promise not to start a new stupid foreign war like Iraq, Libya, Syria etc., and if these "evangelicals" are wedded to warmongering as you say, I can see how they are disappointed.

Thanks for clarifying.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
What these people fail to recognize; and in fact, refuse to recognize, is that when they seek to subjugate and oppress their neighbors for whatever reasons (religious or otherwise) they place themselves in alignment and agreement with those who seek to subjugate and oppress their fellow humans for their own gain/agenda. They BECOME them. They become the means they employ. And they are not absolved of that sin by the presumed righteousness of their intentions. As they seem to think.

Quit trying to be right!!

Spoils my fun.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
Pence is sometimes credited with having made Trump respectable in the eyes of Evangelical leaders. If so, I wonder if Trump throwing Pence under the bus will have any effect on their support for Trump.
I don't know. It's hard to be wrong when you're in a righteousness cult.
 

Aštra’el

Aštara, Blade of Aštoreth
There is no reckoning. Regardless of who one votes for, if one continues worshipping God(s) in their own ways through whatever religion one finds purpose in, I approve. Whether or not you respect President Trump- or any other world leader- is irrelevant to me. Whether or not you respect your God(s), and how far you are willing to go out of devotion to your God(s), is.
 

halbhh

The wonder and awe of "all things".
That's the statement in the opinion piece

We reap what Trump has sown
He has burned down the Republican Party, emboldened white supremacists, mainstreamed conspiracy theorists and more.

Yet of greater concern for me is the trail of destruction he has left within the evangelical movement. Tempted by power and trapped within a culture war theology, too many evangelicals tied their fate to a man who embodied neither their faith nor their vision of political character.
I was just thinking yesterday about another effect. A big one, going in another direction.

The effect from Christians speaking up against the un-Christian things being done and said in the Trump administration.

Pope Francis for instance, saying Christians build bridges, not walls --

— -- Donald Trump’s fellow Republicans joined the fray today in response to the pope’s suggestion that the New York real estate mogul was “not Christian.”

“A person who thinks only about building walls, wherever they may be, and not of building bridges, is not Christian,” Pope Francis said during a flight from Mexico to the Vatican Wednesday night.
2016 Candidates React to Pope Francis-Donald Trump Back-and-Forth

Or the 500 Evangelical pastors and writers that opposed Trump's immigration policy in a full page ad early on, and made headline national news.

Their effect -- talking about real Christianity -- has also influenced public opinion!

I think it's led to an increase in interest in genuine Christianity.

Ironically, by being extremely un-Christian in words and actions, Trump may end up increasing interest in the real thing.




 
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