Brian2
Veteran Member
We are both doing too much of that, so I am going to stop here. Maybe we will meet for another round one day.
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Bahai's and the Bible. Errant or Inerrant. Holistic or cherry picking?
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
We are both doing too much of that, so I am going to stop here. Maybe we will meet for another round one day.
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
To me, "among you", means among Muslims. Muhammad said Christ would reappear among Muslims, when the Mahdi, is already a Leader.
Correct and Baha'u'llah does Testify for Jesus, this is but one of many;
"... Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.
We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.. "
So confirmed, Baha’u’llah passes that Test.
Regards Tony
So the life of Baha'u'llah is full of fruits of the Spirit and Baha'u'llah confirms the Bible is a sure spiritual guide.
That you see Baha'u'llah does not give the interpretation in the way you like, is not a proof that Baha'u'llah is false.
The prophecy is fulfilled as the Gospels are confirmed by Baha'u'llah and I can quote many passages in that confirmation.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Same test some Muslims claim Muhammed passed and that Muhammed was the Spirit of Truth.
The passage is obviously fulfilled as Christianity has rejected what they await for.
They are so full of predudices about false Prophets, they neglect to look for the True Prophets and use the clear tests given in a just and fair way.
Can you imagine being put on trial by a Christain if you claimed to be a prophet, wow you are guilty of being false without a proper trial of the facts.
Christ returned, the Message flashed like lightning around the world, yet many still sleep.
That passage is fulfilled as first they suffer before Christianity awakes to the fulfilment.
It is but a change in one's frame of references.
Regards Tony
Correct, 100% true. Baha'u'llah explains that in detail in the Kitab-i-Iqan.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
Why do you use rhetoric like that brother? Its not objective. Think of this.
That you see Baha'u'llah gives the interpretation in the way you like, is a proof that Baha'u'llah is true.
firedragon
Veteran Member
So is it Muhammed or Bahaullah?
Firstly I have to look up objective to see what you are offering.
My English skills were never good and you are correct, when reading what was written, I stated it in negation and not in an affirmation.
Thus it is good advice offered and my wife alone knows how hard I have tried to change my english communication skills.
I need more time to read what I write before I post. I will learn, I can only hope and try.
Regards Tony
Baha'u'llah explains that all Titles and Names are applicable to all Messengers as they are all of the same Holy Spirit.
In the case of Muhammad Baha'u'llah said all the outward signs were not made visible in the Material world, but Muhammad was also the Spirit of Truth that guides us to all Truth.
Of course big topic, but to me the more I study the Kitab-i-Iqan, the more these spiritual realities become known.
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
I just can't believe you think you lack English writing skills. I thought you were English because your English is that good.
And give my congratulations to your spouse my friend for finding such a nice man. Its not easy.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Which verse?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I was trying to figure this one out but I see you beat me to the punch.
Another way of interpreting that is that Baha'u'llah suffered and was rejected first, before the Message flashed like lightning around the world. We know that is what actually happened because the Message did not flash like lightning around the world until after He had suffered and was rejected.
Luke 17
24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other.
25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
I was trying to figure this one out but I see you beat me to the punch.
Another way of interpreting that is that Baha'u'llah suffered and was rejected first, before the Message flashed like lightning around the world. We know that is what actually happened because the Message did not flash like lightning around the world until after He had suffered and was rejected.
Luke 17
24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other.
25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Can you imagine the grief? Being rejected by all those that await the Message you have been entrusted by God to give, not just one Nation and one people, but all Nations and all peoples.
I can not imagine this, and that is why Baha'u'llah has said no Prophets have suffered as He has.
At the same time Baha'u'llah also says they one and all share that suffering with Him, that they gave their lives for this Message.
Regards Tony
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
But did Muhammad claim to be the Spirit of Truth, as Baha'u'llah did?
“O kings of Christendom! Heard ye not the saying of Jesus, the Spirit of God, "I go away, and come again unto you"? (John 14:28). Wherefore, then, did ye fail, when He did come again unto you in the clouds of heaven, to draw nigh unto Him, that ye might behold His face, and be of them that attained His Presence? In another passage He saith: "When He, the Spirit of Truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth." (John 16:13). And yet behold how, when He did bring the truth, ye refused to turn your faces towards Him, and persisted in disporting yourselves with your pastimes and fancies. Ye welcomed Him not, neither did ye seek His Presence, that ye might hear the verses of God from His own mouth, and partake of the manifold wisdom of the Almighty, the All-Glorious, the All-Wise. Ye have, by reason of your failure, hindered the breath of God from being wafted over you, and have withheld from your souls the sweetness of its fragrance. Ye continue roving with delight in the valley of your corrupt desires. By God! Ye, and all ye possess, shall pass away. Ye shall, most certainly, return to God, and shall be called to account for your doings in the presence of Him Who shall gather together the entire creation.” The Summons of the Lord of Hosts, p. 191
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Let's not forget all the kings and rulers and religious leaders Baha'u'llah was rejected by.
Did that many people reject Jesus?
This is from the Kitab-i-Iqan.
"..... When the light of Qur’ánic Revelation was kindled within the chamber of Muḥammad’s holy heart, He passed upon the people the verdict of the Last Day, the verdict of resurrection, of judgment, of life, and of death. Thereupon the standards of revolt were hoisted, and the doors of derision opened. Thus hath He, the Spirit of God, recorded, as spoken by the infidels: “And if thou shouldst say, ‘After death ye shall surely be raised again,’ the infidels will certainly exclaim, ‘This is nothing but manifest sorcery.’”81 Again He speaketh: “If ever thou dost marvel, marvelous surely is their saying, ‘What! When we have become dust, shall we be restored in a new creation?’”82 Thus, in another passage, He wrathfully exclaimeth: “Are We wearied out with the first creation? Yet are they in doubt with regard to a new creation!”83
There is a lot about Muhammad in the Kitab-i-Iqan.
Also it says there was a line of 4 Elijah foretelling of the Message of Muhammad, I wondered where I had read that.
"... Likewise, ere the beauty of Muḥammad was unveiled, the signs of the visible heaven were made manifest. As to the signs of the invisible heaven, there appeared four men who successively announced unto the people the joyful tidings of the rise of that divine Luminary. Rúz-bih, later named Salmán, was honored by being in their service. As the end of one of these approached, he would send Rúz-bih unto the other, until the fourth who, feeling his death to be nigh, addressed Rúz-bih saying: “O Rúz-bih! when thou hast taken up my body and buried it, go to Ḥijáz for there the Daystar of Muḥammad will arise. Happy art thou, for thou shalt behold His face!”
Regards Tony
firedragon
Veteran Member
I was speaking about "spirit of truth", and you are quoting "Spirit of God"/