God died for everyone. What could be more loving?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Do You Believe In God, Why? Don't You Believe In God, Why?
- Thread starter frbnsn
- Start date
God died for everyone. What could be more loving?
Several things wrong here.
1. nature being eternal would not make it a deity (which requires having a consciousness).
2. being eternal would not mean it is a creation at all
3. I asked why you think that forming everything would require something to be eternal. That was not explained.
Why would their need to be an imagination if the basics particles have properties driving them to form things?
He had a three day inconvenience according to the story. That isn't dying. He even knew ahead of time it was going to be a short term issue. If, instead, he had chosen to not exist and then poofed out of existence entirely, then you might have a point.
Jesus was preaching to the spirits in prison and doing the harrowing of hell.
The third day was the right time for Jesus to come back to life.
Jesus ressurecting and his soul living forever doesn't take away from him dying for us.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God did not die, Jesus died, so Jesus gets the credit.
Personally, I believe in God. It's because I've had personal experiences that have no other satisfactory explanations. With regards to other people, I don't care if they do or do not believe in God. What I do care about is character, and that is a whole different conversation, and not related to belief or non-belief in God.
(Maybe I'm bored, because I've managed not to post in this thread for 39 pages.) The entire idea is rather irrelevant to life, for me.
Nature being eternal would give nature creative powers.
So it would have to have a Creator?
Because an eternal nature would be like a deistic or pantheistic God.
There would need to be an imagination because those particles have to come from somewhere.
It sort of negates any claims of anything extraordinary in his love.
Let's see, he sacrificed himself to himself so that the he could forgive everyone else under the rules he set up. At most, it was a few days of hardship, much less than many people experience in life. And he knew it would work out in the end.
Hardly a real sacrifice.
God in his heavenly throne cannot die but as a man God could die. Jesus dying for our sins shows that he is God because only an infinite being can pay the price of sin which has an infinite penalty; a sinner cannot pay the price of sin.
How does that follow?
Well, except for being aware and having an intention.
Without most of the properties usually assigned to a God: consciousness, for example.
Why would that require an imagination? Do you think that imagination makes things out of nothing?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
It would take it away if He had resurrected bodily, but since He didn't He still gets the credit.
And it only has an infinite penalty because he decided it would. So his death wasn't real death--meaning non-existence, but a temporary inconvenience.
Again, all he really needed to do is say the penalty is void and it would go away. No need for the theatrics.
If a judge took the place of his son, would the legal system making those laws or the judge upholding those laws make his sacrifice any less loving?
The hardship was on the cross, not in the ressurection.
The bodily ressurection of Jesus doesn't take away from the terrible suffering he paid so that we could be forgiven.
The self sacrifice of Jesus was in dying on the cross not in the non existence of his soul.
A judge cannot say about a criminal, the penalty is void. It would be an insult to his justice.
If the judge was the one that made the law condemning his son, had the power to rescind the law at any time, knew the penalty for himself was of limited duration, and made a big show of the whole thing, I would say it negated any expression of caring proclaimed.
Even more so. At most a few hours of pain and suffering. That is less than many people have experienced without knowing it was going to end.
But he was God, so any suffering was meaningless. It was simply a case of masochism.
And the theatrics of condemning himself to unnecessary suffering isn't an insult to justice?
And, yes, judges do this all the time. they may think the law is unjust. They may think the criminal has repented and served his time. He may have just had a good lunch.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
God sits on His heavenly throne and there He will stay.
God is not a man, according to the Bible.
Hosea 11:9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?
Moreover, Jesus said that no man has ever seen God:
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
1 John 4:12 No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.
If no man has ever seen God that means that Jesus could never have been God, since many people saw Jesus.
Jesus didn't brag about dying for our sins. A judge cannot just change a law about jail sentences because the law is the law.
Jesus was sweating tears of blood before he went to the cross.