What! It evolved? It became a new kind?!
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Do You Believe In God, Why? Don't You Believe In God, Why?
- Thread starter frbnsn
- Start date
You don't think that, you feel it.
Huh?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I do not see it that way. I see all the suffering in the world and wonder how a loving God could exist.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Do you want a further explanation?
Many other religions claim the same things for their scriptures.
You're preaching, and making unsupported, illogical declarations.
Support these assertions.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Not buying into most of this argument, but if you accept evolution (as I do) then
suffering comes with the turf. And humans, according to the bible, were given
free choice - if we didn't have the freedom to decide our actions we would complain
"If there was a God I would have freedoms." And that freedom can explain a lot of
man's inhumanity to man.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
And a lot of junk beliefs are comforting, like, in my opinion, the belief in a savior who died for your sins thus wiping them away, a savior that will get you into heaven if only you believe he died for your sins.
Islam teaches that we can be saved by good works. A person who commits a crime may have a lighter sentence because of good behavior but they will still go to jail.
Trees give us oxygen.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
God O taught by adult males the scientist.
My father.
Conscious. Indoctrinated.
My father human
Taught Phi lo sophy science creation themes.
First......just stories beliefs.
Yet science the practice machine not God O natural reactive mass.
Says by design to think I want to be like God. Reactive.
His machine never God.
Today controls machines that he knows changes reactive natural God.
So he thinks he owns two machines natural O earth God mass involving interactive machine reactions with machine.
God O earth natural is not owned by science.
God O earth studied interacted with machines studying reactions.
Theist pretends he controls reactive earth.
Earth always naturally reactive.
Space owns presence of O God stone.
By cold vacuum and spatial pressure.
State stone.
Stone without a heaven.
Stephen Hawking warning...
Stone to not exist radiation effect as stone does exist.
Only science can cause radiation effect.
Thinker theist. When stone did not exist just before it became stone.
No such status coercive.
Burning heavenly gas body inventive theorising to cause God stone moment of never existing.
Burnt to death reasoning.
Ice extreme cold.
Water says science equals X mass the same pressure if ice melted.
Yet cold condition not water is lost.
Spatial vacuum then gives it back.
Cold pressure for God O stone to be God.
God spatial position natural.
God to inherit position to be stone when irradiated vacuum shifts the space holding.
Stone pressurised in natural non gas history. No heavens to be stone.
What science ignores as relative.
Earth had no heavens becoming stone.
My father.
Conscious. Indoctrinated.
My father human
Taught Phi lo sophy science creation themes.
First......just stories beliefs.
Yet science the practice machine not God O natural reactive mass.
Says by design to think I want to be like God. Reactive.
His machine never God.
Today controls machines that he knows changes reactive natural God.
So he thinks he owns two machines natural O earth God mass involving interactive machine reactions with machine.
God O earth natural is not owned by science.
God O earth studied interacted with machines studying reactions.
Theist pretends he controls reactive earth.
Earth always naturally reactive.
Space owns presence of O God stone.
By cold vacuum and spatial pressure.
State stone.
Stone without a heaven.
Stephen Hawking warning...
Stone to not exist radiation effect as stone does exist.
Only science can cause radiation effect.
Thinker theist. When stone did not exist just before it became stone.
No such status coercive.
Burning heavenly gas body inventive theorising to cause God stone moment of never existing.
Burnt to death reasoning.
Ice extreme cold.
Water says science equals X mass the same pressure if ice melted.
Yet cold condition not water is lost.
Spatial vacuum then gives it back.
Cold pressure for God O stone to be God.
God spatial position natural.
God to inherit position to be stone when irradiated vacuum shifts the space holding.
Stone pressurised in natural non gas history. No heavens to be stone.
What science ignores as relative.
Earth had no heavens becoming stone.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That's right. The Bahai Faith explains the sinful nature of man as well as the spiritual nature of man, and provides a lot more clarity than the Bible, which has many contradictions.
“In man there are two natures; his spiritual or higher nature and his material or lower nature. In one he approaches God, in the other he lives for the world alone. Signs of both these natures are to be found in men. In his material aspect he expresses untruth, cruelty and injustice; all these are the outcome of his lower nature. The attributes of his Divine nature are shown forth in love, mercy, kindness, truth and justice, one and all being expressions of his higher nature. Every good habit, every noble quality belongs to man’s spiritual nature, whereas all his imperfections and sinful actions are born of his material nature. If a man’s Divine nature dominates his human nature, we have a saint.” Paris Talks, p. 60
THE TWO NATURES IN MAN
What about there being taste buds that we don't need to eat food? That and tasty foods like pomegranates show that God is a God of love.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am not referring to suffering that comes upon us due to our free will choices.
“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.” Some Answered Questions, p. 248
And WHY is man forced to endure them? Because God set it up that way by creating a material world for us to live in, all the while knowing it would cause suffering. How then can people say that God is not partly responsible for some of our suffering? That is not logical.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is called cherry-picking. One can just as easily find a lot of reasons to believe that God is not All-Loving.
#753 Trailblazer
No. they don't. Why do you feel they do?
The Bible may say this, but so what? Other books say different things. Why is the Bible more authoritative than the Quran?
Please give some evidence for the Bible's correctness before citing it.
And the order of the universe does not, and the order of my cat does not.
We know the mechanisms that led to cars and houses. We know the mechanisms that led to my cat.
More than one mechanism can produce order and complexity. How can you not accept that?
Natural creative mechanisms are not comparable to human artifice, though they both work.
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PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
If could live a life without suffering then where would the character development come into it?
Because if they don't come from God atoms and molecules would either be self existing or from the singularity.
I believe the Bible because we are not sinners by stopping sin that is sinless perfectionism. The Bible says that the heart of people is desperately wicked.
Why would nature create everything if the universe is not eternal? Nature creating everything would be pantheism and it's also vague. Nature cannot have an imagination.
Or formed by more basic particles. \
Molecules are made of atoms.
Atoms are made of protons, neutrons, and electrons.
Protons and neutrons are made of quarks.
Quarks and electrons, as far as we know, are not 'made of' anything more basic.
But they can be created and destroyed by any number of processes.
OK, so that is one viewpoint.
Huh? I'm not seeing the issue. Why would being eternal have anything to do with forming everything?
And if it doesn't, what is the difficulty?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am not saying that there should be no suffering but why do you think that some people have to suffer so much more than other people through no fault of their own? How is that fair? Do you think that those who suffer most are better off than those who suffer little? How could that ever be known or proven?
I think that some people develop character through suffering but not all people. Some people are just broken by it, and what makes it even worse is when some religious people blame those people for their suffering, calling them cowards, as if they could ever know what those people had to endure.
Because the nature being eternal would make it God and it would be a pantheistic creation.
How could molecules and atoms function so good without nature having an imagination?