How Does the Existence of God Negate Darwinian Evolution?

[Skywalker]

What astronomer was that?

Pythagoras of Samos.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What do you think the early Hebrews were ignorant about? I think that people thought that the earth was flat because they didn't understand gradualness and everything else we see in the stars is round and not flat. The Ancient Hebrews weren't ignorant about the evidence hints at a round earth, not a flat earth.

There were endless things that they were ignorant about. And that is not unexpected. They simply did not have the advantage that we have of over 2,000 years of advance since then.

 

[Skywalker]

There were endless things that they were ignorant about. And that is not unexpected. They simply did not have the advantage that we have of over 2,000 years of advance since then.

The verse about not eating saturated fats doesn't express ignorance. Also them being ignorant of modern science has nothing to do with whether God or evolution exists.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What about the Hebrew language did I mistranslate?

The "circle of the Earth". That implies that Earth is a flat disc when one understands the Hebrew words it was written with. That in no way implies a spherical Earth.

 

[Subduction Zone]

The verse about not eating saturated fats doesn't express ignorance. Also them being ignorant of modern science has nothing to do with whether God or evolution exists.

It does not imply knowledge either. And you were the one that started this nonsense, not us. You tried to cherry pick the Bible and now you are not happy because it fell apart.

 

[exchemist]

Pythagoras of Samos.

I have just told you Pythagoras knew the Earth was a sphere.

I quote: "Pythagoras was credited with many mathematical and scientific discoveries, including the Pythagorean theorem, Pythagorean tuning, the five regular solids, the Theory of Proportions, the sphericity of the Earth, and the identity of the morning and evening stars as the planet Venus."

From: Pythagoras - Wikipedia

 

[Skywalker]

The "circle of the Earth". That implies that Earth is a flat disc when one understands the Hebrew words it was written with. That in no way implies a spherical Earth.

There is other linguistics that hints that that verse is referring to a round earth. What is the flat earth theory, is it true, and is it biblical? | CARM.org

Isaiah 40:22, the circle of the earth
Isaiah 40:22, "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."

Is the phrase "circle of the earth" literal or figurative? The flat earthers would say that it is literal. But, if that is the case, then is it also literal when it says the earth has four corners, Isaiah 11:12; Ezek. 7:2; Rev. 7:1; 20:8? Which is it? Also, Isaiah 40:22 says that God "sits above the circle of the earth"? Does God actually sit it in heaven? No. He does not. It is figurative. Also, consider the statement that the "inhabitants are like grasshoppers." Certainly, God can use figurative speech to describe actual truths - which are not meant to be taken literally. From the perspective of someone who would stand say on a mountain top and turn 360° would be completing what would amount to the view of a circle. It would not mean that the earth itself is likewise a circle.

Flat earthers can't have it both ways. If they want to use the Bible to say that the earth is a circular flat disk, then ought they also say that the earth has four corners (Isaiah 11:12). Both can't be true because they are mutually exclusive. Therefore, both phrases ('circle of the earth' and 'four corners') are figurative.

Furthermore, the word in Hebrew for "circle" is חוּג, chug. It occurs only three times in the entire Old Testament.

1. Job 22:14, "Clouds are a hiding place for Him, so that He cannot see; and He walks on the vault of heaven."
2. Prov. 8:27, "When He established the heavens, I was there, when He inscribed a circle on the face of the deep."
3. Isaiah 40:22, "It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in."

Words mean what they mean in context. We do not want to transfer the meaning of the word in one context to another. But since the word only occurs three times in the entire Bible, then we can view its very limited appearances quite easily. In Job 22:14 the word vault might then be translated as circle. But this could be understood as referring to how a person would stand on the earth and look around him 360° and see what appears to be a circle in heaven. Furthermore, the verse says that "clouds are a hiding place for Him." Does God hide behind clouds? Of course not. The context is figurative.

When we look at Proverbs 8:27, we see that God inscribed a "circle on the face of the deep." Different Bibles render chug into different English words such as 1) Circle - ESV, NASB, NKJV 2) Compass - KJV 1900, Douay Rheims; 3) Horizon - CSB, Tanakh. I'm not exactly sure what that means, but the context is dealing with the personification of wisdom. As I look at commentaries, none of them shed any light on what the word can mean in this context. So, it cannot be used to support flat earth theory.

Nevertheless, Isaiah 40:22 would require the flat earth adherent to apply a figurative-literal-figurative interpretation of the verse. After all, it says that God "sits" (figurative) above "the circle of the earth" (literal?) and that its inhabitants are like grasshoppers (figurative). How consistent are they when they push their agenda into the Scriptures? Not very and their inconsistencies reveal their lack of objectivity.

 

[Skywalker]

It does not imply knowledge either. And you were the one that started this nonsense, not us. You tried to cherry pick the Bible and now you are not happy because it fell apart.

It does imply knowledge because there are health issues with eating the fats of animals.

 

[Skywalker]

I have just told you Pythagoras knew the Earth was a sphere.

I quote: "Pythagoras was credited with many mathematical and scientific discoveries, including the Pythagorean theorem, Pythagorean tuning, the five regular solids, the Theory of Proportions, the sphericity of the Earth, and the identity of the morning and evening stars as the planet Venus."

From: Pythagoras - Wikipedia

There are people who dont think the earth is flat or traditionally round but spherical. Maybe Isaiah meant that the earth is a sphere.

 

[Subduction Zone]

There is other linguistics that hints that that verse is referring to a round earth. What is the flat earth theory, is it true, and is it biblical? | CARM.org

Cherry picked vague verses at best. The Bible unfortunately refers to the Earth as Flat in both word and deed. For example when Satan takes Jesus to a high place to see all of the Earth. That only makes sense on a flat Earth. Some say "it was a vision" but that is refuted by the claim that Satan took him to a high place in order to see all of the Earth. There is no reason to go to a high place for a vision. The Earth is a sphere and cannot be observed in its totality from anywhere. The same occurred in the Old Testament when a person climbed a tall tree to see all of the Earth.

I personally despise apologetics sites because I have not seen one that is not a liar for Jesus. There is nothing wrong with being a Christian. But it is wrong to defend one's faith no matter what one's faith is.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It does imply knowledge because there are health issues with eating the fats of animals.

And there are health issues if one eschews all fats as well. Fats are a necessary part of a diet. It is excessive fats that can cause a problem. And please, enough cherry picking. You will lose that fight.

 

[exchemist]

There are people who dont think the earth is flat or traditionally round but spherical. Maybe Isaiah meant that the earth is a sphere.

So you have no evidence the Greeks in the 6th BC thought the Earth was flat. Right.

So the writer of Isaiah, most likely in Babylon, and the Pythagorean Greeks, who were approximately contemporary, may both have had the same understanding. That seems quite likely to me.

Though I take on board @Subduction Zone 's point about the biblical language maybe indicating a round disk (flat or domed) rather than a sphere, as Pythagoras thought.

 

[Skywalker]

Cherry picked vague verses at best. The Bible unfortunately refers to the Earth as Flat in both word and deed. For example when Satan takes Jesus to a high place to see all of the Earth. That only makes sense on a flat Earth. Some say "it was a vision" but that is refuted by the claim that Satan took him to a high place in order to see all of the Earth. There is no reason to go to a high place for a vision. The Earth is a sphere and cannot be observed in its totality from anywhere. The same occurred in the Old Testament when a person climbed a tall tree to see all of the Earth.

I personally despise apologetics sites because I have not seen one that is not a liar for Jesus. There is nothing wrong with being a Christian. But it is wrong to defend one's faith no matter what one's faith is.

Its possible to see areas over 60 miles away from skyscrapers.

 

[Subduction Zone]

So you have no evidence the Greeks in the 6th BC thought the Earth was flat. Right.

So the writer of Isaiah, most likely in Babylon, and the Pythagorean Greeks, who were approximately contemporary, may both have had the same understanding. That seems quite likely to me.

Though I take on board @Subduction Zone 's point about the biblical language maybe indicating a round disk (flat or domed) rather than a sphere, as Pythagoras thought.

There are quite a few other verses that mention the "firmament" as if it were a solid. The concept of a solid dome over the Earth appears to be the belief in at least part of the Old Testament.

 

[Skywalker]

So you have no evidence the Greeks in the 6th BC thought the Earth was flat. Right.

So the writer of Isaiah, most likely in Babylon, and the Pythagorean Greeks, who were approximately contemporary, may both have had the same understanding. That seems quite likely to me.

Though I take on board @Subduction Zone 's point about the biblical language maybe indicating a round disk (flat or domed) rather than a sphere, as Pythagoras thought.

How can there be a domed round disk?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Its possible to see areas over 60 miles away from skyscrapers.

And the Earth is just a tiny big bigger than 60 miles. Thank you for confirming my claim.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How can there be a domed round disk?

The dome is the cover over the Earth. The "firmament". Read Genesis. There was water above the firmament and water below the Earth. The Earth of the Hebrews appears to be between the waters.

 

[Skywalker]

There are quite a few other verses that mention the "firmament" as if it were a solid. The concept of a solid dome over the Earth appears to be the belief in at least part of the Old Testament.

There's a correlation between the firmament and the great flood. The Collapse of the Canopy Model

 

[Subduction Zone]

If one reads the Bible in context this appears to be the Hebrew version of the Earth:

Ancient Hebrew Cosmology

 

[Subduction Zone]

There's a correlation between the firmament and the great flood. The Collapse of the Canopy Model

But we know that there never was a "great flood".