What is the evidence for the God of Abraham?

[nPeace]

Eyes to See said...
For example among Jehovah's Witnesses the prophecy foretold in Isaiah 2:2-4 has had literal fulfillment in our time as they listen to the Bible's command to love your enemy, and pray for those persecuting you. To have long among the whole association of brothers, and they have done away with warfare, and racial, and national prejudice:

The JWs are not unique in this regard among Christian denominations or other faiths. Do you have any objective evidence your denomination of Christianity is any better than all other denominations?

I would say yes they are unique in this, in two ways. 1) They would never use a weapon in war against their neighbors / enemies. 2) They are united in love, in all parts of the world.- a united brotherhood, where there are no sects among them.

We can provide this evidence from the most accurate and reliable source, since misguided and uninformed sources cannot be relied upon to provide the accurate information on this.
However, you can check and see if you find any information on JWs being divided. You can let me know what you find.

I can point to a number of sources that show all other faiths divided - having divided sects... and, willing to engage in war... if "need be".

 

[nPeace]

Thank you for taking the time to reply and give some feedback. I would like to reply now, but my mind is too tired and I'm about to go to bed. Sorry about the short reply. Will try and reply better tomorrow. Oh and good night!

I'm joining you on this one.

 

[danieldemol]

I can point to a number of sources that show all other faiths divided - having divided sects... and, willing to engage in war... if "need be".

Jehovah's Witnesses splinter groups - Wikipedia

As for others not willing to engage in war see thread;
Is there only one pacifist religion?

 

[nPeace]

Jehovah's Witnesses splinter groups - Wikipedia

As for others not willing to engage in war see thread;
Is there only one pacifist religion?

Um. Jehovah's Witnesses sects? No.
Ejected, or Deserted - apostates? Yes.
Not sects of JWs. Sorry.

Thanks for the invitation. See you there.

 

[firedragon]

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

Give me an example from the Quran and give me your well studied reasons why that will not suit the so called "modern age" with a 14 century difference in time in between!

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I would say yes they are unique in this, in two ways. 1) They would never use a weapon in war against their neighbors / enemies. 2) They are united in love, in all parts of the world.- a united brotherhood, where there are no sects among them.

I see absolute pacifism is not taught in the Bible. The rule of Ceaser has been given to man

Acts 25:11
"If then I am a wrongdoer and have committed anything for which I deserve to die, I do not seek to escape death. But if there is nothing to their charges against me, no one can give me up to them. I appeal to Caesar.”

The world to operate needs law and penalties to which we must turn to God for guidance.

Regards Tony

 

[firedragon]

This would be said by those Hindus who want to fool Christians or who get some financial benefit by saying so. The problem is for all Gods and Goddesses and not just those believed by followers of Abrahamic religions.

What about the Hindus who said "ikkam ividitjam"?

 

[danieldemol]

Um. Jehovah's Witnesses sects? No.
Ejected, or Deserted - apostates? Yes.
Not sects of JWs. Sorry.

Thanks for the invitation. See you there.

Did you read the article? Groups that stay together after being ejected are offshoots or sects by the definition of the word.

Baha'is can claim that their offshoots are ejected apostates as well

 

[74x12]

The God of Abraham is central to the world view and way of life to at least four faiths, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. That same God is considered by some with a more universal outlook to be the inspiration behind other major faiths such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. So what is the evidence the God of Abraham really exists and how could we prove He doesn’t? Its a central focus of discussion between theists and non-theists alike.

For me, as a theist the central proof revolves around the life and Teachings of the Founders of the major world religions and the enduring influence over significant portions of humanity through many generations. Key documents such as the Torah, Gospels and the Quran have reinforced an enduring legacy. The Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs have their sacred writings too. However all these works were produced many centuries ago amidst societies with very different values compared to our modern age.

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

Isaiah 51
Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.​

Abraham saw the evidence of God in his own life. From day to day God revealed himself to Abraham in various ways. That's how it should be with us. Those who are looking for evidence of the God of Abraham in a way that is obvious for the whole world are wasting their time. God has always revealed himself to individuals and the faith of Abraham is a personal walk with God. Basically the more like Abraham we are in our relationship to God the more we will see God reveal Himself to us like he did for Abraham.

It's not an easy faith because it makes you an outsider. An enigma to the world. Just like Abraham lived in a tent his whole life and was a traveler so you'll feel like that if you truly follow God. But, the benefit is that you will be the friend of God and you will inherit the promises of God in time.

 

[Skywalker]

There is no evidence for the God of Abraham.

If they wanted teachings suitable for this age the Prophets could have argued the suitability of women and the lgbt crowd to be world leaders, and argued for the voting rights of all humans.

Your welcome

The New Testament has hundreds of references to Jesus, and in terms of ancient writings this is very strong proof of the existence of Jesus. Jesus is talked about in secular historical sources. The death and ressurection of Jesus is mentioned by Josephus and the Talmud, both of which are Jewish sources.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Isaiah 51
Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.​

Abraham saw the evidence of God in his own life. From day to day God revealed himself to Abraham in various ways. That's how it should be with us. Those who are looking for evidence of the God of Abraham in a way that is obvious for the whole world are wasting their time. God has always revealed himself to individuals and the faith of Abraham is a personal walk with God. Basically the more like Abraham we are in our relationship to God the more we will see God reveal Himself to us like he did for Abraham.

It's not an easy faith because it makes you an outsider. An enigma to the world. Just like Abraham lived in a tent his whole life and was a traveler so you'll feel like that if you truly follow God. But, the benefit is that you will be the friend of God and you will inherit the promises of God in time.

Verse 51:8 is extremely interesting;

"For the moth shall eat them up like a garment, and the worm shall eat them like wool: but my righteousness shall be for ever, and my salvation from generation to generation."

I see "Generation" in this verse as the time given to each Prophet.

Thus salvation also renews with obedience to each Message.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Isaiah 51
Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the Lord: look unto the rock whence ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit whence ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah that bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him.​

Abraham saw the evidence of God in his own life. From day to day God revealed himself to Abraham in various ways. That's how it should be with us. Those who are looking for evidence of the God of Abraham in a way that is obvious for the whole world are wasting their time. God has always revealed himself to individuals and the faith of Abraham is a personal walk with God. Basically the more like Abraham we are in our relationship to God the more we will see God reveal Himself to us like he did for Abraham.

It's not an easy faith because it makes you an outsider. An enigma to the world. Just like Abraham lived in a tent his whole life and was a traveler so you'll feel like that if you truly follow God. But, the benefit is that you will be the friend of God and you will inherit the promises of God in time.

I read further and came upon a wow verse

"14 The captive exile hasteneth that he may be loosed, and that he should not die in the pit, nor that his bread should fail."

That is a big grin verse for a Baha'i as Baha'u'llah was an exiled Captive that received His Message in a pit, the bread is the Word that will not fail.

No reply needed, it was just a wonderful moment for me.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

There is no evidence for the God of Abraham.

I totally concur, but perhaps for differing reasons. My reasoning revolves around the use of the word 'evidence'. I don't see belief in 'evidence' terms, and I don't understand the necessity of proving it. Do people spend so much time proving 'it', that they have no time for worshiping 'it'?

Who cares if he exists or not. If worshiping (or pretending to worship) makes you a better person, so be it. That's the true benefit of religion, not standing around trying to convince others that it exists.

 

[Skywalker]

I totally concur, but perhaps for differing reasons. My reasoning revolves around the use of the word 'evidence'. I don't see belief in 'evidence' terms, and I don't understand the necessity of proving it. Do people spend so much time proving 'it', that they have no time for worshiping 'it'?

Who cares if he exists or not. If worshiping (or pretending to worship) makes you a better person, so be it. That's the true benefit of religion, not standing around trying to convince others that it exists.

A Christian is not a better person than a gay person. People who protest other people are a bad example of Christ. Christ respected the people who were rejected by society and spoke to them with respect and love.

 

[Vinayaka]

A Christian is not a better person than a gay person. People who protest other people are a bad example of Christ. Christ respected the people who were rejected by society and spoke to them with respect and love.

I have no idea how my comment begat that response. Oh well.

 

[Skywalker]

I have no idea how my comment begat that response. Oh well.

You mentioned the topic of someone worshipping God doesn't makes them a better person and I told you that I agreed with you and I gave you my opinion.

 

[Dawnofhope]

This would be said by those Hindus who want to fool Christians or who get some financial benefit by saying so. The problem is for all Gods and Goddesses and not just those believed by followers of Abrahamic religions.

Since Bahais do not consider Jesus to be the son of God, their God is not the same as that of Christians. Similarly, since Islam says the message sent to Mohammad is the last and Bahais have a new message, therefore, Bahais God is also not the same as that of Muslims. Jews have no place for all the three - Jesus, Mohammad and Bahaollah. So, they do not all mean the same when they talk about the God of Abraham. Books are no evidence for existence of any God or Goddess, not just the so-called God of Abraham. A more solid evidence is required.

Adrian, you are talking of a God and then doubting his power to have such books created in earlier times which could be experienced with comparable clarity suited to modern times. Such doubts suit atheists like me but not a believer like you. It is unfortunate that your faith is not strong.

I don't doubt there is an issue of those wanting to deceive and operating in the religious sphere for financial benefit. That is a problem both in the East and West. However, I believe most religious leaders in Hinduism are not charlatans but are sincere in their belief. That being said, the vast majority of Hindus are theists so it would be good to hear from theist Hindus as to what constitutes the foundation of their belief and if they think in terms of proofs for what they believe. Its useful to hear from atheist Hindus such as yourself as to why you believe God does not exist.

There are obviously theological differences between Jews, Christians, Muslims and Baha'is despite being people of the book and in some instances such as the Jews and Christians, using the same Tanakh. There are issues of culture, translation and interpretation that would account of different understandings . The apparent contradictions between these religions and indeed within each one is often used as an argument against the reliability of such texts. However, such differences are an inevitability of texts that were produced so long ago, especially in the case of the Tanakh, New Testament and Quran. It is a potential problem with the Baha'i writings too though not nearly to the same extent.

 

[Vinayaka]

You mentioned the topic of someone worshipping God doesn't makes them a better person and I told you that I agreed with you.

Maybe you missed the word 'if'. I don't care what motivates you to become a better person. It might be the justice system, personal reflection, elderly advice ... whatever. And I agree that hate isn't part of being a better person. I have no idea how 'gay' came up.

My point is that there is no evidence for God. Searching for such evidence is a waste of time, as you'll never find it. Better to practice charity, tolerance, love, etc. It's a more valuable usage of time, in my view.

 

[Vinayaka]

I don't doubt there is an issue of those wanting to deceive and operating in the religious sphere for financial benefit. That is a problem both in the East and West. I won't imagine that most religious leaders in Hinduism are charlatans but are sincere in their belief. That being said, the vast majority of Hindus are theists so it would be good to hear from theist Hindus as to what constitutes the foundation of their belief and if they think in terms of proofs for what they believe.

Theist Hindu here. I definitely don't think in terms of proof. No need to prove anything. For me, belief is belief, and personal experiences lead me to what I believe. It certainly wasn't listening to some guy trying to convince me it was true. I would never believe in reincarnation, for example, without personal experience. So too with God.
But everyone's experiences are different. I suppose if you want to believe in God, for some reason, but have never had a convincing experience to help, you might want to try to reason it out. But personally, I see that as futile. God is way beyond the reasoning mind, in my view. It's like trying to apply Grade 1 arithmetic to calculus.

 

[Skywalker]

Maybe you missed the word 'if'. I don't care what motivates you to become a better person. It might be the justice system, personal reflection, elderly advice ... whatever. And I agree that hate isn't part of being a better person. I have no idea how 'gay' came up.

My point is that there is no evidence for God. Searching for such evidence is a waste of time, as you'll never find it. Better to practice charity, tolerance, love, etc. It's a more valuable usage of time, in my view.

What about the eye, optic nerve, and visual cortex together capturing, delivering, and interpreting up to 1.5 million pulse messages per millisecond? That's irreducible complexity.