What is the evidence for the God of Abraham?

[Dawnofhope]

The God of Abraham is central to the world view and way of life to at least four faiths, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. That same God is considered by some with a more universal outlook to be the inspiration behind other major faiths such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. So what is the evidence the God of Abraham really exists and how could we prove He doesn’t? Its a central focus of discussion between theists and non-theists alike.

For me, as a theist the central proof revolves around the life and Teachings of the Founders of the major world religions and the enduring influence over significant portions of humanity through many generations. Key documents such as the Torah, Gospels and the Quran have reinforced an enduring legacy. The Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs have their sacred writings too. However all these works were produced many centuries ago amidst societies with very different values compared to our modern age.

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

 

[Eyes to See]

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

God's teachings do not need to change. What God says stands. He is our Creator so he knows what we need and what he says is for our good. The very fact that millions of people are blessed and live better lives when applying the Bible's counsel in their lives today is proof that Jehovah is the true God.

For example among Jehovah's Witnesses the prophecy foretold in Isaiah 2:2-4 has had literal fulfillment in our time as they listen to the Bible's command to love your enemy, and pray for those persecuting you. To have long among the whole association of brothers, and they have done away with warfare, and racial, and national prejudice:

(Isaiah 2:2-4) In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

 

[danieldemol]

The God of Abraham is central to the world view and way of life to at least four faiths, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. That same God is considered by some with a more universal outlook to be the inspiration behind other major faiths such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. So what is the evidence the God of Abraham really exists and how could we prove He doesn’t? Its a central focus of discussion between theists and non-theists alike.

For me, as a theist the central proof revolves around the life and Teachings of the Founders of the major world religions and the enduring influence over significant portions of humanity through many generations. Key documents such as the Torah, Gospels and the Quran have reinforced an enduring legacy. The Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs have their sacred writings too. However all these works were produced many centuries ago amidst societies with very different values compared to our modern age.

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

There is no evidence for the God of Abraham.

If they wanted teachings suitable for this age the Prophets could have argued the suitability of women and the lgbt crowd to be world leaders, and argued for the voting rights of all humans.

Your welcome

 

[danieldemol]

The very fact that millions of people are blessed and live better lives when applying the Bible's counsel in their lives today is proof that Jehovah is the true God.

Even if the Bibles teachings were all good (they are not imo) and their peoples lived better lives than peoples of other religions and no religion (of this you have provided no evidence), still none of that would prove a God exists, let alone the Biblical God.

 

[Eyes to See]

Even if the Bibles teachings were all good (they are not imo) and their peoples lived better lives than peoples of other religions and no religion (of this you have provided no evidence), still none of that would prove a God exists, let alone the Biblical God.

No one else has solved the problem to warfare. Jehovah's Witnesses earth-wide have done away with it among themselves. No other governmental, or religious institution has been able to do it.

So Jehovah's Witnesses have already solved a problem no one else has been able to do.

And God foretold it was going to happen. That is very good proof of God's existence, and also of the superior nature of divine education.

 

[Dawnofhope]

God's teachings do not need to change. What God says stands. He is our Creator so he knows what we need and what he says is for our good. The very fact that millions of people are blessed and live better lives when applying the Bible's counsel in their lives today is proof that Jehovah is the true God.

God's Teachings clearly do change as anyone remotely familiar with the Christian Bible will testify. Consider the 613 laws of the Torah and whether they were all suited to the when Christ emerged. Many of those laws such as capital punishment for work on the Sabbath were no longer applicable. So in Hebrews in it is recorded:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13


The Gospel was revealed during a time when slavery was the norm as with male domination of women and the rule of despotic emperors. The time of Christ did not fully address these norms of society. The abolition of slavery, the equality of men and women and the need for democratic processes are a necessary part of our modern age that the Gospels do not fully address.

It may well be a proof that millions are blessed through the counsels in the Bible but that is also true for other religions.

For example among Jehovah's Witnesses the prophecy foretold in Isaiah 2:2-4 has had literal fulfillment in our time as they listen to the Bible's command to love your enemy, and pray for those persecuting you. To have long among the whole association of brothers, and they have done away with warfare, and racial, and national prejudice:

The JWs are not unique in this regard among Christian denominations or other faiths. Do you have any objective evidence your denomination of Christianity is any better than all other denominations?

(Isaiah 2:2-4) In the final part of the days, The mountain of the house of Jehovah Will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, And it will be raised up above the hills, And to it all the nations will stream. 3 And many peoples will go and say: “Come, let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah, To the house of the God of Jacob. He will instruct us about his ways, And we will walk in his paths.” For law will go out of Zion, And the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. 4 He will render judgment among the nations And set matters straight respecting many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares And their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, Nor will they learn war anymore.

How do you see this prophecy as having been fulfilled?

 

[danieldemol]

No one else has solved the problem to warfare. Jehovah's Witnesses earth-wide have done away with it among themselves. No other governmental, or religious institution has been able to do it.

Your good at making tall claims without any evidence. Baha'is don't kill each other either, and like Jehovah's Witnesses they too have not had the numbers to require the management of large enough populations to prove they can manage armed conflicts.

So Jehovah's Witnesses have already solved a problem no one else has been able to do.

Disagreed as per above.

And God foretold it was going to happen. That is very good proof of God's existence, and also of the superior nature of divine education.

You have not proven it is divine education as opposed to human education, of course some forms of education will be superior to others, that does not prove that the most superior form of education is divine in nature.

As far as God foretelling such a thing, you only have ambiguous words of men foretelling such a thing would happen. You have not even provided the evidence that there is a God, that the prophecies should be coming from God and not men.

*There shall be small numbers of pacifists that won't fight each other* is hardly a prophecy requiring supernatural power.

But watch the disputes that will inevitably occurred if these untruthful religions ever grow large enough to incorporate the wolves of humanity. Some people are genetically predisposed to violent psychopathy, sociopathy and other forms of mental illness that won't be tamed without the efforts of science, and how will a bunch of unarmed pacifists deal with them?

 

[Eyes to See]

How do you see this prophecy as having been fulfilled?

Thank you for taking the time to reply and give some feedback. I would like to reply now, but my mind is too tired and I'm about to go to bed. Sorry about the short reply. Will try and reply better tomorrow. Oh and good night!

 

[Sunstone]

Revelation. Or, at least alleged revelation (as opposed to, say, unmediated direct experience).

 

[Dawnofhope]

There is no evidence for the God of Abraham.

If they wanted teachings suitable for this age the Prophets could have argued the suitability of women and the lgbt crowd to be world leaders, and argued for the voting rights of all humans.

Your welcome

If the proof of a religion suited to this age is:
1/ A supreme international governing body whose membership includes both men and women and;

2/ Teachings that advocate homosexuality is moral;

then I agree the Baha'i Faith would not meet that criteria.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Revelation. Or, at least alleged revelation (as opposed to, say, unmediated direct experience).

How would you see Revelation being different from unmediated direct experience? I would equate Revelation as belonging to the domain of the so called Prophets/Messengers where as unmediated experience (mysticism) as being something assessible in varying degrees to us all. A mystical experience could certainly be a proof for the one who experiences it, though is unlikely to be a proof for anyone else.

 

[MonkeyFire]

God doesnt require evidence, it's a selfish desire. Without religion there is no life, you might as well try to believe... atleast before it's too late.

 

[Sunstone]

How would you see Revelation being different from unmediated direct experience? I would equate Revelation as belonging to the domain of the so called Prophets/Messengers where as unmediated experience (mysticism) as being something assessible in varying degrees to us all. A mystical experience could certainly be a proof for the one who experiences it, though is unlikely to be a proof for anyone else.

We are in substantial agreement here. That is, we more or less see eye to eye on this matter, Adrian.

 

[Dawnofhope]

God doesnt require evidence, it's a selfish desire. Without religion there is no life, you might as well try to believe... atleast before it's too late.

I agree God requires no evidence. It doesn’t make too much sense for God to require evidence of his existence though its an interesting question to ask of ourselves: “What evidence is there that I exist?”. That is a slight digression though. The question at hand for this OP is “Why do I believe the God of Abraham does or doesn’t exist?” and “Do any of those reasons constitute ‘evidence’?” It an important question for us all to consider from time to time as what we believe can influence the outcome of our lives.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. some with a more universal outlook to be the inspiration behind other major faiths such as Hinduism, ..

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

This would be said by those Hindus who want to fool Christians or who get some financial benefit by saying so. The problem is for all Gods and Goddesses and not just those believed by followers of Abrahamic religions.

Since Bahais do not consider Jesus to be the son of God, their God is not the same as that of Christians. Similarly, since Islam says the message sent to Mohammad is the last and Bahais have a new message, therefore, Bahais God is also not the same as that of Muslims. Jews have no place for all the three - Jesus, Mohammad and Bahaollah. So, they do not all mean the same when they talk about the God of Abraham. Books are no evidence for existence of any God or Goddess, not just the so-called God of Abraham. A more solid evidence is required.

Adrian, you are talking of a God and then doubting his power to have such books created in earlier times which could be experienced with comparable clarity suited to modern times. Such doubts suit atheists like me but not a believer like you. It is unfortunate that your faith is not strong.

So Jehovah's Witnesses have already solved a problem no one else has been able to do.

You forget Bahais who claim just the very same. And Armenia / Azarbaijan conflict was no war. It is not a war unless atom bombs are used.

 

[Aupmanyav]

God's Teachings clearly do change as anyone remotely familiar with the Christian Bible will testify. Consider the 613 laws of the Torah and whether they were all suited to the when Christ emerged. Many of those laws such as capital punishment for work on the Sabbath were no longer applicable. So in Hebrews in it is recorded:

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Hebrews 8:13

Capital punishment for work on Sabbath is still, the law. God will deal with those who flout it when the time comes. Tomorrow, you may say that worshiping one God is not necessary. Will that change God's law? Those people who have changed laws of the God of Abraham will have to suffer the consequences when the time comes. They are what Muslims term as 'Munafiqoon", people who accept only what is convenient. Hebrews belongs to culprits of the God of Abraham. They had the temerity to play with the Laws of God.

 

[pearl]

The time of Christ did not fully address these norms of society.

There was no need if the Eschaton was expected within their lifetime.

 

[Aupmanyav]

"What evidence is there that I exist?”

Adrian, perhaps you are aware that sects of various Indian religions dispute that a person exists. They consider it an illusion. Advaitists and Buddhist talk of 'maya', 'anatta', 'anicca', 'sunyata'. Jains do not give a concrete reply (Anekantavada*).

* Anekantavada / Syadavada (many-sidedness) - Wikipedia:
Affirmation: syād-asti—in some ways, it is,
Denial: syān-nāsti—in some ways, it is not,
Joint but successive affirmation and denial: syād-asti-nāsti—in some ways, it is, and it is not,
Joint and simultaneous affirmation and denial: syād-asti-avaktavyaḥ—in some ways, it is, and it is indescribable,
Joint and simultaneous affirmation and denial: syān-nāsti-avaktavyaḥ—in some ways, it is not, and it is indescribable,
Joint and simultaneous affirmation and denial: syād-asti-nāsti-avaktavyaḥ—in some ways, it is, it is not, and it is indescribable,
Joint and simultaneous affirmation and denial: syād-avaktavyaḥ—in some ways, it is indescribable.

 

[MonkeyFire]

I agree God requires no evidence. It doesn’t make too much sense for God to require evidence of his existence though its an interesting question to ask of ourselves: “What evidence is there that I exist?”. That is a slight digression though. The question at hand for this OP is “Why do I believe the God of Abraham does or doesn’t exist?” and “Do any of those reasons constitute ‘evidence’?” It an important question for us all to consider from time to time as what we believe can influence the outcome of our lives.

If you cant know God by such means.

 

[nPeace]

The God of Abraham is central to the world view and way of life to at least four faiths, Judaism, Christianity, Islam and the Baha’i Faith. That same God is considered by some with a more universal outlook to be the inspiration behind other major faiths such as Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. So what is the evidence the God of Abraham really exists and how could we prove He doesn’t? Its a central focus of discussion between theists and non-theists alike.

For me, as a theist the central proof revolves around the life and Teachings of the Founders of the major world religions and the enduring influence over significant portions of humanity through many generations. Key documents such as the Torah, Gospels and the Quran have reinforced an enduring legacy. The Hindus, Buddhists and Sikhs have their sacred writings too. However all these works were produced many centuries ago amidst societies with very different values compared to our modern age.

If the God of Abraham really exists how could His influence be experienced with comparable clarity through the books of the past yet incorporate Teachings more suited to our modern age?

I agree with you, on what I can understand. Some I don't understand. Maybe my brain hasn't fully awoken yet.

The strongest evidence for the God of Abraham, I see, is found in the Tanakh, and other scriptures in the writings of Jesus' followers.
How?
The history is for the most part verified, both externally, and internally.