Arthur P. Dent
Member
Thank you for your reply. I suspect on several points we are arguing semantics, but what the hell... I have some time to kill and I love exercising my grey matter
100%! But why even make a definitive statement if you aren't trying to sway someone? I have always maintained that if theists kept their BS to themselves and weren't trying to force it onto others, the "theist/atheist" debate would be MUCH smaller to the point of irrelevance. My entire "secular moral" code has been condensed to 3 key points. 1) Don't harm self, 2) Don't harm others, 3) Don't be a deliberate douche. Beyond that... enjoy the hell out of life and remember, "life is too serious to take seriously"
Exactly! I know when I left my car last night it was blue. I have definitive definitions of "blue" and "green" based on wavelength and point of reference. Now... could some ******* have painted my car or a distant relative have left me a green car that I am unaware of? ABSOLUTELY!!!! But in my 50+ years that has never happened so I think, <ehem>, the *probability* is exceedingly low.
Yes I did... but *only* to point out it is a perpetual problem in Philosophy and to state that we have to agree and ASSUME what reality is in order to have a meaningful Socratic Discussion.
Emmm..... There is less uncertainty around some claims than others. "The sun will rise tomorrow" is a claim that may not come true, but the fact that based on the past umpteen *billion* years, the likelihood is more "certain". Whereas, "I will sprout wings overnight and be able to fly like a bird tomorrow" is a MUCH LESS certain as it has NEVER happened in history that we are aware of.
One of the above claims is an "ordinary" claim... "The sun will rise tomorrow"
One of the claims is "extraordinary"... "I will sprout wings...."
And it doesn't take a braniac to determine which category an "Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent, Omnisapient, Omnitemproal, Transcendent" entity belongs.
That was my point.
IMO, the only people who have a burden of proof are people who are trying to convince others of their position. If I don't care whether I'm believed, I have no obligation to defend any claim I make.
100%! But why even make a definitive statement if you aren't trying to sway someone? I have always maintained that if theists kept their BS to themselves and weren't trying to force it onto others, the "theist/atheist" debate would be MUCH smaller to the point of irrelevance. My entire "secular moral" code has been condensed to 3 key points. 1) Don't harm self, 2) Don't harm others, 3) Don't be a deliberate douche. Beyond that... enjoy the hell out of life and remember, "life is too serious to take seriously"
Isn't "exceedingly low probability" the same reason you don't think your car is green?
possibility that some vandal painted your car green while you weren't watching it and you'll only find out the next time you look at it.
Exactly! I know when I left my car last night it was blue. I have definitive definitions of "blue" and "green" based on wavelength and point of reference. Now... could some ******* have painted my car or a distant relative have left me a green car that I am unaware of? ABSOLUTELY!!!! But in my 50+ years that has never happened so I think, <ehem>, the *probability* is exceedingly low.
You brought up solipsism
Yes I did... but *only* to point out it is a perpetual problem in Philosophy and to state that we have to agree and ASSUME what reality is in order to have a meaningful Socratic Discussion.
Answered AboiveAnd gifts and inheritance also aren't extraordinary: maybe a relative has left you a car, but you haven't been notified yet.
My point in all this is that there's quite a bit of uncertainty around all sorts of claims.
Emmm..... There is less uncertainty around some claims than others. "The sun will rise tomorrow" is a claim that may not come true, but the fact that based on the past umpteen *billion* years, the likelihood is more "certain". Whereas, "I will sprout wings overnight and be able to fly like a bird tomorrow" is a MUCH LESS certain as it has NEVER happened in history that we are aware of.
One of the above claims is an "ordinary" claim... "The sun will rise tomorrow"
One of the claims is "extraordinary"... "I will sprout wings...."
And it doesn't take a braniac to determine which category an "Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnibenevolent, Omnisapient, Omnitemproal, Transcendent" entity belongs.
That was my point.