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I know god doesn't exist?

Bird123

Well-Known Member
To your own dark ends, of course. It is Truth, though you would deny it. I can only sow you the Truth. What you decide to do with the Truth is up to you.


Dark ends??? General Vague answers are no answers at all. You are giving me your beliefs based upon your feelings. You should know how I feel about blind beliefs.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
Dark ends??? General Vague answers are no answers at all. You are giving me your beliefs based upon your feelings. You should know how I feel about blind beliefs.
That is exactly what a dark deceiver would say!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
That is exactly what a dark deceiver would say!

To what end? For what purpose? What is the goal?
I tell you do not believe. I place Truth in your life. I point the direction by which you can Discover for yourself. Is my real crime trying to open your eyes to something beyond blind beliefs??

As I said. I copy God. I place Truth in the world. From here it is all up to you. Unlike religion, I will never ask anyone to follow. Each must walk their own path, learning through free choices.

Now you might call me dark because what I say does not conform to your beliefs. Maybe a wider view would bring in more light than closing your eyes to all the possibilities that stare you in the face. Who is really choosing to stay in the darkness?


That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Dark ends. Dark purposes. Dark goals.

Deceiver. I shall not let you pollute my ears any more. Fie. Begone.


What Dark ends?? What Dark purposes? What Dark goals? Am I to just accept your feelings on this is the truth?? That's not going to happen. Substance, I need substance, not beliefs or feelings.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
I don't know how your two comments connect. I've never heard any theist give evidence outside his personal experience (i.e. I can testify...). What objective evidence would there be for god and why would theist try to prove there is when it's not based on that?

I believe if your evidence has to be objective then you will have very little knowledge of anything. You will never know who won the foot ball game because if you weren't there to see it yourself all the rest of the evidence is subjective.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
When a car is stolen, there's generally some span of time between when the rightful owner no longer has a car until they realize that they no longer have a car. If you happen to ask someone whether they have a red car during that span of time, they might sincerely answer "yes" even if the truth is that they don't have a red car anymore.


Can one?

How would you determine that there isn't a subterranean amusement park under your town?

What about a secret amusement park for a select few, that's disguised as something else?

And what if I've decided that my personal definition of "amusement park" includes any place where people experience joy? Can you really say that your town doesn't have an amusement park then?


Why would it be "a matter of testimony?"

I believe that is a case of Schroeder's Cat.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
I believe if your evidence has to be objective then you will have very little knowledge of anything. You will never know who won the foot ball game because if you weren't there to see it yourself all the rest of the evidence is subjective.

You're confused. The objective evidence is that people exist, that games exist, that people play football games, that football games are won and that people can witness those games. That is sufficient to accept mere word of mouth about the outcome of a game - assuming that no bet rides upon it.

No one provides similar objective evidence that gods exist. Nor evidence that you either perceive or are capable of perceiving such beings.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I believe if your evidence has to be objective then you will have very little knowledge of anything. You will never know who won the foot ball game because if you weren't there to see it yourself all the rest of the evidence is subjective.

But why do christians make it objective?

History channel has been trying to get evidence for jesus' miracles for ages.
 
Now you might call me dark because what I say does not conform to your beliefs.

I am fine with what you say not conforming to my beliefs as long as you are not trying to force those beliefs onto others. I judge people based on actions alone and even there, I keep it simple. Ihave "distilled" my entire morality code to 3 points.

1) Don't harm self
2) Don't harm others
3) Don't be a deliberate douche

Beyond that, crack a cold one and enjoy the hell out of life!!! ;-)
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
I am fine with what you say not conforming to my beliefs as long as you are not trying to force those beliefs onto others. I judge people based on actions alone and even there, I keep it simple. Ihave "distilled" my entire morality code to 3 points.

1) Don't harm self
2) Don't harm others
3) Don't be a deliberate douche

Beyond that, crack a cold one and enjoy the hell out of life!!! ;-)

Control is one of the petty things mankind holds so dear. Isn't that the real issue for so many?

I merely try to copy God since if one copies great intelligence, the outcomes are always better.

God isn't telling anyone what to believe. On the other hand, isn't that all religion does? Religion also uses fear , intimidation, and coercing tactics when can not get some to follow. This is not God.

Relax, Hell doesn't really exist. On the other hand, God returns our actions in time. This is not to punish. This is to teach one what those actions really mean. Some of what people choose can seem like Hell when it returns. Of course, those who have already learned that lesson wonder how others could choose it. For those of us who must watch, it is just a reminder of what the best answers really are.

Sounds with your 3 choices you are headed in the right direction.

How long did birds fly before mankind figured out how? That knowledge was around us all the time. God places knowledge around us all. It waits to be Discovered. I copy God when I place knowledge in the world or point someone in the right direction.

On their journey, it has always been the individual's choice on what choices and actions to take. Free choice, even if it is a wrong choice is part of God's system. I might point , however I will not interfere with God's system.

Through attempting to control others, some want everyone to conform to the very same. Little do they realize God gave everyone a different view to guaranty mankind a larger view than any one person could have. Diversity of views allows the entire picture to be seen. Diversity is a Strength.

The first thing that God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that. I work on mine everyday. All the secrets of God and the universe stare us all in the face. God is not hiding anything.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!
 

MJ Bailey

Member
It's usually a contextual. I'd say god doesn't exist. Though I'd I exclude "I" it may sound like a fact-statement. Likewise vis versa. I guess it's only wrong if people take offense by it.
I don't find that offensive at all. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. They are only offensive if they harm individuals:)
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
You're confused. The objective evidence is that people exist, that games exist, that people play football games, that football games are won and that people can witness those games. That is sufficient to accept mere word of mouth about the outcome of a game - assuming that no bet rides upon it.

No one provides similar objective evidence that gods exist. Nor evidence that you either perceive or are capable of perceiving such beings.

I believe you are setting up one witness as valid because it is one you like and the other witness as invalid because you don't want to believe the witness.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
If you weren't going to bother answering my questions, why reply?

I believe the question is: When you open the box will you find out I have answered the question or not. Surely if you know about Schroeder's Cat then you know the answer is: You can't know until the car is either found in the driveway or is not. That is not the kind of witness that a person who knows God has. There is nothing indeterminate in the witness.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
But why do christians make it objective?

History channel has been trying to get evidence for jesus' miracles for ages.

I believe there is no way to be proof positive sure about anything that happened in history. We have writings and artifacts and bones but they don't tell the whole story so people tend to fantasize to fill in the gaps. I have no idea what Jesus had for breakfast the day of the last supper but I know there was bread and wine at the last supper.
 

ppp

Well-Known Member
I believe you are setting up one witness as valid because it is one you like and the other witness as invalid because you don't want to believe the witness.
That is because cannot conceive that anyone would disagree with you on any basis other than like or dislike. Also, your asserting that my disagreement is based on something so banal allows you to ignore what my actual position is.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I believe the question is: When you open the box will you find out I have answered the question or not. Surely if you know about Schroeder's Cat then you know the answer is: You can't know until the car is either found in the driveway or is not. That is not the kind of witness that a person who knows God has. There is nothing indeterminate in the witness.
No, that wasn't my question.

Again: if you weren't going to bother answering my questions, why reply?
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
I believe there is no way to be proof positive sure about anything that happened in history. We have writings and artifacts and bones but they don't tell the whole story so people tend to fantasize to fill in the gaps. I have no idea what Jesus had for breakfast the day of the last supper but I know there was bread and wine at the last supper.

That's what this god/jesus-exist debate is all about, really. No one can prove god/jesus exists no more than many other figures. But it matters to christians that he historically exist and even more so push that miracles actually happen.

People do fill in the gaps. There is nothing inherently wrong with it, but why do many christians get offended when it comes to that?

If it's by faith, why try to prove it as a fact?
 
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