You and I don’t often agree, but that is spot on.
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Do Santa, Christmas Trees etc. Bother You?
- Thread starter Rival
- Start date
FWIW, considering how pervasive Santa is in our culture, I don't think a parent would have to deliberately try to instill a belief in Santa for the kid to just kinda pick up a belief in Santa from the media and their peers.
The other approach is to treat it as a game rather than a lie. Once the kid figures it out, they're in on the game.
Maybe it’s just a co-incidence that Santa is an anagram of Satan.....?
Jesus castigated the Jewish leaders for feeding their flocks “traditions” over God’s word. All the traditions surrounding Christmas are of pagan origin, even the date on which it is celebrated.
Birthdays were not celebrated by the ancient Jews because of the spiritistic customs that were attached to them. Birthdates were used to cast horoscopes by astrologers so the Jews never recorded their birthdates.....there is no birthdate in the Bible for Jesus or anyone else. The date for Christmas is borrowed from the worship of a false god. The feasting, gift giving, and merry making are also associated with the Roman Saturnalia.
The Christmas trees and Yule logs were borrowed from Norse customs...the evergreen trees in lands where most trees are naturally deciduous were claimed to have magical qualities.
Santa Claus is a lie. God hates lies. Santa has replaced any thought of Jesus in a celebration that promotes greed and gluttony. It’s also tough on the poor kids when they see what “Santa” gives the rich kids but sometimes doesn’t even give the poor kids anything.
There is nothing “Christian” about Christmas...and there never was. The early Puritans shunned Christmas because of its plainly pagan connections.
Scripturally both OT and NT principles admonish God’s worshippers to avoid such spiritistic practices or the adoption of pagan customs and festivals.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12....
“9 “When you have entered into the land that Jehovah your God is giving you, you must not learn to imitate the detestable practices of those nations. 10 There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, anyone who employs divination, anyone practicing magic, anyone who looks for omens, a sorcerer, 11 anyone binding others with a spell, anyone who consults a spirit medium or a fortune-teller, or anyone who inquires of the dead. 12 For whoever does these things is detestable to Jehovah, and on account of these detestable practices Jehovah your God is driving them away from before you.”
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 also give us God’s view of adopting pagan practices and trying to fuse or mix them with God’s worship.
“Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? 15 Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? [the devil] Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? 16 And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” 17 “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” 18 “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”
I see no ambiguity in these statements that would leave one to wonder what God thinks of these adopted celebrations....he was there when the originals were celebrated. He hated them then....he hates them now IMO.
And Jehovah is an anagram of "Ahh - Jove."Maybe it’s just a co-incidence that Santa is an anagram of Satan.....?
Can't say that it bothers me, per se.
What bothered me was that my parents lied to me... THAT I remember.
Christmas tree can be used as a vehicle to teach the meaning of Christmas. The day, though there is much to do as to whether it was the day, can also be used as a teaching tool.
Today's Santa Clause, I don't like but you still can use it as a tool if Saint Nicholas points to Jesus.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I love Jesus, so whatever reminds me of Jesus makes me smile and happy, be it a Christmas Tree of Santa or contemplate or meditate on Jesus, or sing songs about Jesus. When I see a nice Christmas Tree in a movie in summer, I get immediately a good feeling because I think of Jesus. Personally I never have bought a Christmas Tree nor celebrate Santa Clause Festivals nor even my own birthday, but when others enjoy in celebration, I am happy with them.
That's beautiful!
I think everything about Xmas is hugely flawed and if I never saw another Xmas again in my life, I would be happy.
Christ wasn't born in December so that's the first issue. And then there's the entire consumerism culture that makes me want to scream at people and tell them to wake up. Millions of people spending money they don't have - or could be put to better use - in crap no one needs to somehow tell others that they love them, not with actions, but with a credit card... it's just insane.
Do you miss your family and want to spend time with them? Call them, set up a meeting, lunch, whatever.
Do you want to show someone that you love them? Treat them with love, make sure your actions are all the proof they need of your feelings. No need to use you wallet.
Do you feel the need to decorate your house? Forget about the low quality plastic stuff made in Asia with slave labor. Go get some nice real plants, add a painting from a local artist on the wall, or some pictures that bring you good memories; check the local shops for some cool art made with love by someone that has a story to tell.
Do you want to give something to your child? Give them your time and attention. And if you want to add a toy, buy the toy and tell them it's from you. Make them understand that you work hard to earn the money to pay for that toy and that they should value and cherish that gift. Don't give the credit to some old man that doesn't exist. Take the credit, you deserve it!
74x12
Well-Known Member
The whole idea of Christmas kind of bothers me as a Christian because I think it inherited to much from Saturnalia and pagan traditions. However, I don't really care and I'm not the kind of person to judge others for partaking of it. No I don't believe people are worshiping the devil if they celebrate Christmas. Really a lot of people genuinely want to celebrate Jesus' birth.
Actually, when I consider that people like to do good deeds at Christmas time then I think it's a good holiday. I suspect that the whole "Christmas spirit" people feel every year is just made by themselves and people around them being nice for a change. I think we could have that positive energy all year if people would try it.
The letters in Santa spell Satan. He's an old man, wearing red, enticing little boys to sit in his lap, with the promise of "something to play with." He sneaks into their homes, in the dead of night, and eats their cookies. He lives in an ice palace in the north, with small humanoids with pointed ears, enslaved to build toys. He chains reindeer to haul him around the world.
Living pine trees are chopped down. (Perhaps not as bad as the 4th of July in which homes get burned down and people get burned to death, and air pollution increases). Christmas lights cause Global Warming.
The Christmas season is about sales (mammon)...getting parents to buy presents that kids use for an hour then abandon. Some play with the boxes longer than the presents.
The Christmas traditions were based on Pagan beliefs.
My point? Propaganda can make anyone into a villain or saint.
Living pine trees are chopped down. (Perhaps not as bad as the 4th of July in which homes get burned down and people get burned to death, and air pollution increases). Christmas lights cause Global Warming.
The Christmas season is about sales (mammon)...getting parents to buy presents that kids use for an hour then abandon. Some play with the boxes longer than the presents.
The Christmas traditions were based on Pagan beliefs.
My point? Propaganda can make anyone into a villain or saint.
Zaha Torte
Active Member
Christians who are living their religion every day shouldn't be bothered by this one day that helps everyone (even non-Christians) focus on Christian principles.
Who cares if they add a fat guy and a tree.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
First off, let me say that your feelings are your feelings. They are not right or wrong, they are simply valid. You have a right to feel whatever way you do.
Although as a Jew I don't celebrate Christmas (unless you consider going out for Chinese and movie celebrating Christmas, it doesn't bother me. If anyone has ever heard the Jewish talk show host Dennis Prager speak on the subject, I resonate to a lot of what he says. It's just the whole season of the winter holidays from Halloween to New Years. It makes an otherwise dark and cold time of year more joyful. I enjoy the lights and the tinsel and the whole thing of greeting people with a happy holidays. Where I live in California, people are pretty inclusive -- school programs for Christmas always include a song or two about Chanukah. I think people are a little nicer to each other this time of year, and I think there is never a bad reason for families and friends to come together. It makes the otherwise cold season a little bit warmer.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Oh, come on. The letters of God spell dog too.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
It was originally a pagan holiday that was later co-opted by the christian church, so of all the holiday traditions Christ's birth is actually the least legitimate.
I think it depends much on how and what is done. But, for me Christmas trees, Santa and commercial Christmas is disturbing, all though I like to give presents.
I think we're more in agreement about principles and moral behavior than you think. It's in our sources and justification of moral precepts that we disagree.
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IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
That's actually untrue. I looked into this, and there were areas of the church that celebrated on December 25 decades before the Sol Invictus thing. Secondly, December 25 was finally chosen by the church as a whole because it is nine months after the feast of the Annunciation, when Jesus' conception is celebrated, and not because of any pagan holiday. Thirdly, no one celebrates Sol Invictus anymore. What you have is the Feast of the Nativity, a Christian holy day, which is why I as a Jew don't celebrate it.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
People may not celebrate Yule, Saturnalia, etc. but they are the origins of the traditions that are unrelated to - and predate - the nativity.
People do celebrate those festivals. I'm tired of people acting like modern Paganism and polytheism doesn't exist.
No festivals form in a vacuum. It's true that there are definitely things Christmas has in common and sourced from those earlier festivals, but it wasn't coopted by the church, rather brought from syncretic converts choosing to observe both Christian and regional holidays. Further, some of these traditions were shared by cultures which had no contact with each other, owing more to the shared experience of early agrarian winters, themes of spending time when there was less outdoor work to be done on more spiritual matters, new light dawning, themes of togetherness pulling families in during cold days, etc etc. It's why most cultures with any kind of equinox holidays tend to share some themes.