Do you believe in ghosts ?

[PoetPhilosopher]

Solve this one

Will

Solve this one

I agree. But I'd work better with two different threads at this point, and here is why....

I originally if I remember right just talked in this thread without realizing it was a debate. And I'm kind of knee deep in conversation talking about my personal experiences now.

But proving ghosts with evidence is a whole other subject. And involves stuffy, rulesy debates.

@chinu - we haven't asked you. What direction did you want things to go in your thread?

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Well, do you ?


Kindly note: please do refrain posting in this thread if you are afraid from ghosts, thank you.

Nope.

 

[stvdv]

Well, do you ?


Kindly note: please do refrain posting in this thread if you are afraid from ghosts, thank you.

Open

 

[Ancient Soul]

I don't have that problem, if I'm understanding your post correctly.

I went back and read all of your and Amanaki's posts on this thread and all I've seen was a discussion about seeing "ghosts". So I think you are not understanding what I mean. So forgive me, I find it extremely difficult trying to articulate my spiritual experiences, they are so different and difficult to put into words.

What I'm trying to express is my ability to "read" another soul's energy, that basically tells me the essence of who they really are.

In your physical form you feel all things differently. But the soul does not have physical senses, so instead "feels" differences in the energy coming from other souls. The soul of a dog, cat, male and female human, horse, ... all living beings... emit energy that "feels" different for each of them. And then within them all, different energies are emitted that also tells me their mental state, health, strength, spiritual state, how good/bad/evil they are, etc... all that "they" are.

Now while most people think their soul is some mysterious part of them hidden "inside", God had shown me that all souls actually extend well beyond everyone's physical body. So all I have to do is come into proximity of another soul to "read" it's energy.

I'm at a loss to explain it any better than that.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I went back and read all of your and Amanaki's posts on this thread and all I've seen was a discussion about seeing "ghosts". So I think you are not understanding what I mean. So forgive me, I find it extremely difficult trying to articulate my spiritual experiences, they are so different and difficult to put into words.

What I'm trying to express is my ability to "read" another soul's energy, that basically tells me the essence of who they really are.

In your physical form you feel all things differently. But the soul does not have physical senses, so instead "feels" differences in the energy coming from other souls. The soul of a dog, cat, male and female human, horse, ... all living beings... emit energy that "feels" different for each of them. And then within them all, different energies are emitted that also tells me their mental state, health, strength, spiritual state, how good/bad/evil they are, etc... all that "they" are.

Now while most people think their soul is some mysterious part of them hidden "inside", God had shown me that all souls actually extend well beyond everyone's physical body. So all I have to do is come into proximity of another soul to "read" it's energy.

I'm at a loss to explain it any better than that.

I got that. I understood. The subject was originally about ghosts but some of us have moved onto being about reading souls.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I got that. I understood. The subject was originally about ghosts but some of us have moved onto being about reading souls.

So how does it work differently for you?

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

So how does it work differently for you?

Not much. One way it's different is I have never tried to read an animal, actually. Another way it's different is I can see energy long distance to some extent.

I should provide the disclaimer to people though that that doesn't automatically mean I'll be able to tell them many intimate details of their lives. To jump in and suddenly trying to feel without a strong human or spiritual connection and long distance.... it would ask a lot of me.

 

[Ancient Soul]

Not much. One way it's different is I have never tried to read an animal, actually. Another way it's different is I can see energy long distance to some extent.

I should provide the disclaimer to people though that that doesn't automatically mean I'll be able to tell them many intimate details of their lives. To jump in and suddenly trying to feel without a strong human or spiritual connection and long distance.... it would ask a lot of me.

I get that a LOT myself. Usually from the scoffers.

Most of the time they equate my "reading" of a soul to "reading" someone's mind.

It gets soooo annoying.

Although I did one "reading" a long time ago for a poster on an Internet forum, with a just photo of them to connect with. And she was astounded how spot-on I was, especially about her deep love for her daughter. But I think this was different from my "reading" another soul as I did not "feel" anything. It was more like all this information about her came flooding in all at once. Much the same as when God gives me spiritual answers to my questions.

But I don't like to do it with the scoffers as they most likely would say I was all wrong just to mess with me.

 

[Tiberius]

You know, I do agree with you and @Mock Turtle in some respects. I'd like to have an actual real debate of this subject some time. Formal debate. Unfortunately, this thread is a bit confusing - it's in the debate forum but looking back, is more like a thread in the Paranormal forum. It is confusing.

I'm also willing to kind of temporarily drop my whole "it's abductive reasoning" argument in pursuit of the truth going either direction.

If you'd like to start a new thread for us to have a more formal debate, I'd be happy to participate in it.

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

If you'd like to start a new thread for us to have a more formal debate, I'd be happy to participate in it.

Sounds good. I think that'd be wise. I'll get started on it.

 

[Tiberius]

Yes, according to the Sages and Saints:
1) Science is below the mind; Spirituality is above the mind
2) In Silence the Voice of God can be heard

I don't see how those things count as a reasonable justification for not providing evidence.

 

[Tiberius]

Sounds good. I think that'd be wise. I'll get started on it.

Be sure to send me a link and I'll join the discussion.

 

[stvdv]

As I have already asked, is there any good reason why someone with such evidence would not provide it?

Yes, according to the Sages and Saints:
1) Science is below the mind; Spirituality is above the mind
2) In Silence the Voice of God can be heard

I don't see how those things count as a reasonable justification for not providing evidence.

"reasonable evidence" for spiritual matters would need reason(= intellect,mind etc)
BUT that's problematic, as spirituality is beyond the mind, meaning you won't "get it" using the mind
Second one to see needs similar deduction

 

[Tiberius]

"reasonable evidence" for spiritual matters would need reason(= intellect,mind etc)
BUT that's problematic, as spirituality is beyond the mind, meaning you won't "get it" using the mind
Second one to see needs similar deduction

So you have to resort to special pleading. You need to say the ability to reason and use rational logic that has given us all of the scientific advances we have today suddenly does not apply to ghosts because... reasons.

 

[nPeace]

To answer all that i found in the link you gave me, i will need more time. I have to say there is a lot i see differently then what this articles are saying

I hope i can get back to you as soon as possible, but wow i know i have some work in front of me to answer here

Take as much time as you need. There is no need to rush.
The focus is primarily on spirit, so it's not necessary to comment on every detail ... unless you want to, of course.

 

[rational experiences]

Humans are a bio life, as a human born historically from sperm from a Father adult male life body....not your own. And a female Mother adult life body, ovary, also not your own.

An ovary changes...now not your own, for you became a human baby who grew into a human adult. One self, self life ownership.

Animals a bio life form before ours, make noises.

We speak by owning the bio chemical living life form that speaks.

Yet science proved in multi experiments that artificial voice is heard from and because of atmospheric conditions.

Therefore one condition that is "artificial" as compared to natural history. Is machines.

A machine is a manipulated choice done and chosen by its Designer a human being....who takes natural cold mineral mass...its highest natural form and melts it.

So the machine comes from a melt. Artificial water use, as applied by the manipulator/Designer is not natural...although all products used are originally natural, they do not act to build/coerce and manipulate form into a machine.

What Science lying, human caused AI effects are historically.

Science practiced a long time ago, owns humans records of our life destruction along with machine parts found in ancient archaeological finds. Humans did it.

We lost half of our natural original water mass, to cool the various Noble Gases burnt by the Designer human male self, and he encoded artificial feed back ghost images, falsified presences by the multi conditions of them.

Including visions/images/voice/sound and recordings of the human voice and living self.

The reason why a human can hear artificial speaking of voice...for they DESIGNED the atmospheric encoded causes by their machine.

The machine even after it was built just sits and owns no volition of its own purpose.

A living conscious human science Designer has to build it, manipulate and use the machine by their own bio life choices...right or wrong. Humans/males actually as the owners of all scientific designs did it to self. Even told self that they sacrificed natural life to form the AI speaking of voice effect. Told self and have coerced humanity ever since about why it exists caused.

Ghosts are not real they are caused, which is also the taught scientific concept the reason why they get seen, the reason why some forms of spirit can physically be felt also for they are close in physical gas/mass carbon burning/water cooling effects to affect our physicality also.

 

[stvdv]

So you have to resort to special pleading. You need to say the ability to reason and use rational logic that has given us all of the scientific advances we have today suddenly does not apply to ghosts because... reasons.

No special pleading needed. Humans are capable of much more than only scientific reasoning. Plenty of proof around; do you want to "see"?

 

[Tiberius]

No special pleading needed. Humans are capable of much more than only scientific reasoning. Plenty of proof around; do you want to "see"?

We are capable of much more than scientific reasoning, I agree.

What I don't agree with is that these other techniques are able to actually give any reliable information about the real universe. Can you demonstrate that these other techniques you speak of can give accurate information about the universe? If so, please do.

 

[Ancient Soul]

"reasonable evidence" for spiritual matters would need reason(= intellect,mind etc)
BUT that's problematic, as spirituality is beyond the mind, meaning you won't "get it" using the mind
Second one to see needs similar deduction

So you have to resort to special pleading. You need to say the ability to reason and use rational logic that has given us all of the scientific advances we have today suddenly does not apply to ghosts because... reasons.

You don't get what he is saying and probably never will. But I surely do. And he's right.

 

[Tiberius]

You don't get what he is saying and probably never will. But I surely do. And he's right.

Oh, I get what he's saying.

He's saying that there is no way that he can demonstrate the existence of ghosts unless he resorts to unverifiable claims, superstition, and anecdote. It's just making excuses as to why the ability to use reason and logic which has served us so well for everything else, just doesn't apply to ghosts for reasons which you can't actually explain.