The 144,000 and the "Rapture" (Christians only)

[nPeace]

Yeah, the token which signified the cutting off of the sins of the flesh. Yeah, that sign.

The inheritance to all the faithful like Abraham still stands. It is still the day of salvation.
All those faithful ones will be raised from the dead or translated from among the living at Christ's coming

No use repeating yourself with no scriptural support.
The Bible says all faithful ones are in the memorial tomb, snd will come out... not to heavenly life.

 

[nPeace]

The new is older than the old at Mount Sinai. Because the only covenant that can save anyone is the covenant God made with Abraham.

Says you. Not the Bible.

 

[Deeje]

@Faithofchristian ....who are your brethren? With whom do you meet, and what is the message that you and you brethren preach?

Why the silence on who it is that are your shepherds? (Hebrews 13:17) I can hear God sighing from here.....

Your interpretation is very skewed IMO.....so who else hold this truth, but you?

 

[YoursTrue]

If only you knew what you were talking about .....human accomplishments are what God purposed for mankind all along, but what have humans, alienated from their Creator, actually accomplished to this point?

The death of planet Earth is looming.....If we do not take care of Planet A...there is no Planet B, though I know that the ones who see where we are going, are desperately searching for one. And when they find it, what do you think they'll do with it?

Humans are too selfish to think about the long term consequences of their actions.....those are left to the succeeding generations. I am grateful that I do not have to rely on flawed humanity to ensure my future.

God is giving the human race..."enough rope".......is it enough yet?

Then there is what is called the "Doomsday Clock," as they say it ticks ever closer towards the occurrence of a nuclear war. 2020 Doomsday Clock Time: 100 Seconds To Midnight
Those who have true hope and faith in what God promises know that He will step in before "mankind" destroys itself.

 

[YoursTrue]

I don't need to as I delve into theology books from actual theologians, including those in other faiths.

So do I. And some of them make sense to me, others don't.

 

[YoursTrue]

Is that all you got..seeing that you haven't given any proof of evidence that Satan
has been already cast of heaven...
So where's your proof of evidence..

The proof is putting the pieces together. Clearly he did not want to leave heaven. He was cast out, thrown out, of heaven. Now of course there are many different opinions about this. It depends on how you see the scriptures (what you believe). You can do a search on jw.org and see more about the reasoning.
Revelation 12 helps, of course, because it tells us that Satan was hurled out of heaven. I wonder how you see this:
"But the dragon was not strong enough, and no longer was any place found in heaven for him and his angels. 9And the great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him. 10And I heard a loud voice in heaven saying: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of His Christ. For the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down--he who accuses them day and night before our God."

 

[YoursTrue]

OK, but it says that Satan is the deceiver of the whole world and that he has angels. So he is the deceiver of the whole world.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Are you here implying that you alone studied it, and no one else?


Nothing you said here is of scripture.
There are no references to back up your claim... only your claim. A claim to support a claim?
Whatever happened to listening to The Lord Jesus Christ in his word?


Why would you say a thing like that, while preaching something foreign to the Bible?


See. This sounds like something you copied and pasted from a sermon.
Is it your sermon... Are you the pastor? Or, is it someone else's?
It says nothing about Israel when Israel became a Nation in 1948.
Now why would you want me to listen to you, rather than the Lord Jesus Christ through his word?
Don't you see how that is contradictory?

Well you just proved yourself that you haven't a clue or idea what the parable of the Fig tree is or who it represents or when it came to it's fulfilment..

And you want to criticize me..now that is funny...
But then the whole reason that you don't know....is because like anything else...
your not being taught the most important things in the churches and that's evidence..

 

[nPeace]

Well you just proved yourself that you haven't a clue or idea what the parable of the Fig tree is or who it represents or when it came to it's fulfilment..

That's not possible seeing that you are making claim after claim, without backing what you say, with scriptural support... or otherwise.
I did not quarrel with you, but simply listened to what you said, and asked questions.

For example, you said God creates our spirit in heaven, and he created our bodies on earth.
When I asked which one is us, you had no answer.
When I asked what God does with the spirits of the dead fetuses, you just said they live on.
So countless spirits - whether that's us or not since you evidently have no scriptural answer, are living forever in heaven. Including all the wicked.

There is no scripture that supports such an idea... that I know of. If you have them, then teach me. Is that not what God's servants do?
So I see it as your expressing your idea .. your claims. and we know that unsupported claims are just empty. Right?
Why would you want to just speak empty words, and claim that you listen to Jesus' words?
That's misleading. Is it not?
We both know what is said in the Bible about misleading expressions.
(1 Timothy 4:1) However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons. . .

And you want to criticize me..now that is funny..

.
Criticize you??? Me!!!? Where did I do that?

But then the whole reason that you don't know....is because like anything else...
your not being taught the most important things in the churches and that's evidence..

Now that you mentioned evidence... recall that you said, we have no evidence that Satan has been cast to earth, and we used scripture and secular evidence, to show that to be the case, but you could not deny it.
The most you did was make a claim, that only you can see, as though you have divine knowledge,
No scriptural, or physical evidence supports your claim... Just you.
You never provided any proof. You just claimed that what you believe is true. How is that reasonable?

Finally, I would like to remind you that you made a claim - God knows where you got it, that spirit means the same as soul. Deeje responded, and you ignored her response.
I don't think we want a better example than that, of one who clearly is not using the Bible in the right way, to allow it to speak, but rather is just making claims on their beliefs, which scripture does not support.

Does a servant of God refuse to address a response that is given in good faith, to a claim made?
I don't think so.

I am still wondering where I criticized you though.
Criticism would be like if I said something like "Gee.. You don't even know what criticism is." But I wouldn't say that.

 

[nPeace]

The new is older than the old at Mount Sinai. Because the only covenant that can save anyone is the covenant God made with Abraham.

Just in case you are wondering...
Jehovah's everlasting covenant with David
(Psalm 89:27-29, 34) 27 And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. 28 I will maintain my loyal love for him forever, And my covenant with him will never fail. 29 I will establish his offspring forever And make his throne as enduring as the heavens. 34 I will not violate my covenant Or change what my lips have spoken.

(2 Samuel 23:1-5) 1 These are the last words of David: “The word of David the son of Jesse, And the word of the man who was raised on high, The anointed of the God of Jacob, The pleasant singer of the songs of Israel. 2 The spirit of Jehovah spoke through me; His word was on my tongue. 3 The God of Israel spoke; To me the Rock of Israel said: ‘When the one ruling over mankind is righteous, Ruling in the fear of God, 4 It is like the morning light when the sun shines, A morning without clouds. It is like the brightness after the rain, Making grass sprout from the earth.’ 5 Is not my house like that before God? For he has made an eternal covenant with me, Arranged in every detail and secured. Because it means my complete salvation and all my delight, Is that not why he makes it flourish?

(2 Chronicles 13:5) . . .Do you not know that Jehovah the God of Israel gave to David a kingdom over Israel forever, to him and to his sons, by a covenant of salt?

Jehovah's covenant with Jesus for a kingdom and priesthood
(Psalm 110:4) Jehovah has sworn an oath, and he will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever In the manner of Melchizedek!”

(Luke 22:29) ... and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,
(Hebrews 5:5, 6; Revelation 20:6)

Jehovah's covenant with the sons of the kingdom
(2 Corinthians 3:5, 6) 5 Not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified to consider that anything comes from us, but our being adequately qualified comes from God, 6 who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code, but of spirit; for the written code condemns to death, but the spirit makes alive.

Jesus’ covenant With His Followers
(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.
(Revelation 22:5)

Without these covenants, how could mankind gain salvation?
Isaiah 9:6

 

[YoursTrue]

After the mortal evil king (red dragon) brings about God's judgment upon His people, as directed by Christ and his saints, the red dragon king will be thrown down from heaven (his rule over the earth) and the victors will be the 144,000 mortals. With the help of Michael the archangel and his angels.

The red dragon and his angels are all mortal men.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

Rev 12:11 And they conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives until death.

The heaven in which this mortal king is to be thrown down is not the heaven in the sky. These things are going to take place on earth, as they are God's judgements manifest on earth.

Among the 144,000 Jews is a woman who is to give birth to the mortal king who will be king over all Israel.

So a mortal evil king you say was thrown out of heaven? Where are you getting this idea from?

 

[YoursTrue]

Just in case you are wondering...
Jehovah's everlasting covenant with David
(Psalm 89:27-29, 34) 27 And I will place him as firstborn, The highest of the kings of the earth. 28 I will maintain my loyal love for him forever, And my covenant with him will never fail. 29 I will establish his offspring forever And make his throne as enduring as the heavens. 34 I will not violate my covenant Or change what my lips have spoken.

(2 Samuel 23:1-5) 1 These are the last words of David: “The word of David the son of Jesse, And the word of the man who was raised on high, The anointed of the God of Jacob, The pleasant singer of the songs of Israel. 2 The spirit of Jehovah spoke through me; His word was on my tongue. 3 The God of Israel spoke; To me the Rock of Israel said: ‘When the one ruling over mankind is righteous, Ruling in the fear of God, 4 It is like the morning light when the sun shines, A morning without clouds. It is like the brightness after the rain, Making grass sprout from the earth.’ 5 Is not my house like that before God? For he has made an eternal covenant with me, Arranged in every detail and secured. Because it means my complete salvation and all my delight, Is that not why he makes it flourish?

(2 Chronicles 13:5) . . .Do you not know that Jehovah the God of Israel gave to David a kingdom over Israel forever, to him and to his sons, by a covenant of salt?

Jehovah's covenant with Jesus for a kingdom and priesthood
(Psalm 110:4) Jehovah has sworn an oath, and he will not change his mind: “You are a priest forever In the manner of Melchizedek!”

(Luke 22:29) ... and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom,
(Hebrews 5:5, 6; Revelation 20:6)

Jehovah's covenant with the sons of the kingdom
(2 Corinthians 3:5, 6) 5 Not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified to consider that anything comes from us, but our being adequately qualified comes from God, 6 who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code, but of spirit; for the written code condemns to death, but the spirit makes alive.

Jesus’ covenant With His Followers
(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.
(Revelation 22:5)

Without these covenants, how could mankind gain salvation?
Isaiah 9:6

Yes, it is to be appreciated also that when Jesus was resurrected, he spoke to his disciples and continued reasoning and reassuring them.

 

[LightofTruth]

So a mortal evil king you say was thrown out of heaven? Where are you getting this idea from?

The things spoken of in Revelation have been spoken of by other prophets. From Moses on down.

 

[LightofTruth]

So a mortal evil king you say was thrown out of heaven? Where are you getting this idea from?

For starters, check out Deu 32

 

[nPeace]

So a mortal evil king you say was thrown out of heaven? Where are you getting this idea from?

Did you notice, the mortal evil king works for Christ?
These words keep resounding in my head...
However, the inspired word clearly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired statements and teachings of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, whose conscience is seared as with a branding iron. (1 Timothy 4:1, 2)

 

[nPeace]

Could you fix this post. It's messed up, and I don't understand it.

 

[Faithofchristian]

@Faithofchristian ....who are your brethren? With whom do you meet, and what is the message that you and you brethren preach?

Why the silence on who it is that are your shepherds? (Hebrews 13:17) I can hear God sighing from here.....

Your interpretation is very skewed IMO.....so who else hold this truth, but you?

The only reason what I say.. doesn't go along with what you say..

Is because you follow man's teachings and doctrines in the churches....
And I only follow The Lord Jesus Christ and his teachings..

For one other thing...I don't belong to any man made religions or churches..or any religious organizations..

 

[Deeje]

The only reason what I say.. doesn't go along with what you say..

Is because you follow man's teachings and doctrines in the churches....
And I only follow The Lord Jesus Christ and his teachings..

For one other thing...I don't belong to any man made religions or churches..or any religious organizations..

I thought that might be the case.

If you are the only two one who believes what you believe, then that is proof that Christ is NOT directing you. God’s spirit did not choose you alone to be the ONE to reveal his truth to. You need a brotherhood who believes what you believe. Sincerity alone is not enough....otherwise Saul would never have become the apostle Paul.

It is good to reject what the churches teach when they are clearly outside of what Jesus taught, but you have to understand that Christ gave his message to many to share and to spread it all the over the world. If you are alone in your beliefs, how does that fit what Jesus commanded? (Matthew 10:11-14)

If we are not to neglect our meeting together with fellow Christians, how do you do that? (Hebrews 10:24-25)

 

[Faithofchristian]

I thought that might be the case.

If you are the only two one who believes what you believe, then that is proof that Christ is NOT directing you. God’s spirit did not choose you alone to be the ONE to reveal his truth to. You need a brotherhood who believes what you believe. Sincerity alone is not enough....otherwise Saul would never have become the apostle Paul.

It is good to reject what the churches teach when they are clearly outside of what Jesus taught, but you have to understand that Christ gave his message to many to share and to spread it all the over the world. If you are alone in your beliefs, how does that fit what Jesus commanded? (Matthew 10:11-14)

If we are not to neglect our meeting together with fellow Christians, how do you do that? (Hebrews 10:24-25)

Well it's evidence that you haven't read what The Lord Jesus Christ said in
Matthew 18:20--"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them"

Therefore I don't have to belong to any churches or religious organizations..

As I am one the Spirit of truth 2.
And Jesus Christ 3..
Therefore where two or three are gathered together there's The Lord Jesus Christ in the middle..
Nice try though..

 

[cataway]

Well it's evidence that you haven't read what The Lord Jesus Christ said in
Matthew 18:20--"For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them"

Therefore I don't have to belong to any churches or religious organizations..

As I am one the Spirit of truth 2.
And Jesus Christ 3..
Therefore where two or three are gathered together there's The Lord Jesus Christ in the middle..
Nice try though..

ah, so a person that is found to be standing in opisthion to the directives of Jesus calls on Jesus and then should expect Jesus to send holy spirit to help them to continue their wayward ways ?