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The 144,000 and the "Rapture" (Christians only)

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
The Hebrew translation for
( soul ) and ( spirit) are one and the same..
They are interchangeable meaning the
Soul also means Spirit.
and Spirit also means Soul..

Who told you that?
In the words for “spirit” in the languages that most of the Bible was originally written in, Hebrew and Greek, both the Hebrew word (ruʹach) and the Greek word (pneuʹma) basically mean “breath” or “wind.” And the English word “spirit” comes from the Latin spiritus, which means “breath.”

The word “soul” is translated from the Hebrew word neʹphesh, so "soul" and "spirit" are not the same. This Hebrew word also comes from a root meaning “to breathe.” However, it signifies “a living being, an individual, a person.”
Adam "became" a soul when God started him breathing......
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
All the faithful throughout the ages are to be raised from the dead. Those living at Christ's return are to meet the others in the air. All those together are there when the book of Revelation begins to be fulfilled, They are represented by the four living creatures and 24 elders.
Scripture and verse please.

I never read that. However, I did read these...
(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

(Luke 12:32) “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.

(John 17:24) Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world.

(2 Timothy 2:12) if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us;

(Colossians 1:26, 27) 26 the sacred secret that was hidden from the past systems of things and from the past generations. But now it has been revealed to his holy ones, 27 to whom God has been pleased to make known among the nations the glorious riches of this sacred secret, which is Christ in union with you, the hope of his glory.

(Romans 8:18-25) 18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.

(Matthew 11:11-13) 11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John;

Which scripture says all faithful throughout the ages attain heavenly life?
I see none.
However, I do see Jesus making a covenant with his follower, to be with him in heaven, as rulers with him.
Don't you see that?
(John 14:2-4) 2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. 4 And where I am going, you know the way.”

That is the tabernacle in heaven as the original had foreshadowed. It is also called New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven to rule with Christ on earth.
New Jerusalem, according to scripture is the bride of Christ - the 144, 000.
(Revelation 21:9, 10) 9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls that were full of the seven last plagues came and said to me: “Come, and I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 So he carried me away in the power of the spirit to a great and lofty mountain, and he showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God

It comes down to meet Christ in marriage.
(Revelation 21:2) I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The scriptures do not say it comes to earth.
Does it? Where does it say that?

Before the tribulation period, there will be a development of believers in Jerusalem from the 12 tribes of Israel. They are those who make up the 144,000 (12 x 12,0000).
Scripture and verse, please.

They will be the beginning(first-fruits) of the visible kingdom where all will be restored. There will be a visible king (line of David) and an invisible king (Christ) ruling the kingdom of God on earth from the Temple.

The invisible ones are the immortal kings like the angels are immortal. The mortal kingdom will have a mortal king ruling over all Israel under the direction of Christ who is the Lord of all the earth at that time.
No scripture? :shrug: Are you suggesting I take your word.
Sorry. I can't Scripture does not recommend that.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The rider of the white horse is not Jesus exactly. I mean, the rider is a mortal king who is bringing about God's judgments on His people at that time.

The four living creatures (immortal saints) tell John to "come and see" what is to take place on earth.

The execution of God's judgments are being directed by Christ and those saints. Behind the scenes of what is actually be seen on earth.
Sorry you see it that way. :(
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
After the mortal evil king (red dragon) brings about God's judgment upon His people, as directed by Christ and his saints, the red dragon king will be thrown down from heaven (his rule over the earth) and the victors will be the 144,000 mortals. With the help of Michael the archangel and his angels.

The red dragon and his angels are all mortal men.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

Rev 12:11 And they conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives until death.

The heaven in which this mortal king is to be thrown down is not the heaven in the sky. These things are going to take place on earth, as they are God's judgements manifest on earth.

Among the 144,000 Jews is a woman who is to give birth to the mortal king who will be king over all Israel.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
Scripture and verse please.

I never read that. However, I did read these...
(Luke 22:28-30) 28 “However, you are the ones who have stuck with me in my trials; 29 and I make a covenant with you, just as my Father has made a covenant with me, for a kingdom, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my Kingdom, and sit on thrones to judge the 12 tribes of Israel.

(Luke 12:32) “Have no fear, little flock, for your Father has approved of giving you the Kingdom.

(John 17:24) Father, I want those whom you have given me to be with me where I am, in order that they may look upon my glory that you have given me, because you loved me before the founding of the world.

(2 Timothy 2:12) if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us;

(Colossians 1:26, 27) 26 the sacred secret that was hidden from the past systems of things and from the past generations. But now it has been revealed to his holy ones, 27 to whom God has been pleased to make known among the nations the glorious riches of this sacred secret, which is Christ in union with you, the hope of his glory.

(Romans 8:18-25) 18 For I consider that the sufferings of the present time do not amount to anything in comparison with the glory that is going to be revealed in us. 19 For the creation is waiting with eager expectation for the revealing of the sons of God. 20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope 21 that the creation itself will also be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22 For we know that all creation keeps on groaning together and being in pain together until now. 23 Not only that, but we ourselves also who have the firstfruits, namely, the spirit, yes, we ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly waiting for adoption as sons, the release from our bodies by ransom. 24 For we were saved in this hope; but hope that is seen is not hope, for when a man sees a thing, does he hope for it? 25 But if we hope for what we do not see, we keep eagerly waiting for it with endurance.

(Matthew 11:11-13) 11 Truly I say to you, among those born of women, there has not been raised up anyone greater than John the Baptist, but a lesser person in the Kingdom of the heavens is greater than he is. 12 From the days of John the Baptist until now, the Kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. 13 For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John;

Which scripture says all faithful throughout the ages attain heavenly life?
I see none.
However, I do see Jesus making a covenant with his follower, to be with him in heaven, as rulers with him.
Don't you see that?
(John 14:2-4) 2 In the house of my Father are many dwelling places. Otherwise, I would have told you, for I am going my way to prepare a place for you. 3 Also, if I go my way and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will receive you home to myself, so that where I am you also may be. 4 And where I am going, you know the way.”


New Jerusalem, according to scripture is the bride of Christ - the 144, 000.
(Revelation 21:9, 10) 9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls that were full of the seven last plagues came and said to me: “Come, and I will show you the bride, the Lamb’s wife.” 10 So he carried me away in the power of the spirit to a great and lofty mountain, and he showed me the holy city Jerusalem coming down out of heaven from God

It comes down to meet Christ in marriage.
(Revelation 21:2) I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The scriptures do not say it comes to earth.
Does it? Where does it say that?


Scripture and verse, please.


No scripture? :shrug: Are you suggesting I take your word.
Sorry. I can't Scripture does not recommend that.
Where's the scripture which excludes his other brethren from inheriting the kingdom of God?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Had you read Revelation 6:2..
You should have found that the rider on the white horse...
As having a bow but no shine nor any arrows.. just a bow..
And a crown was given him...but nothing like a crown a real crown a king has..

Notice also he went forth conquering and to conquer..
You really believe that Jesus Christ will go about conquering and to conquer people..

The Lord Jesus Christ does go about conquering and to conquer anyone..
Everyone has their free will to come to The Lord Jesus Christ of their own free will..

The one who will be coming to conquering and to conquer the Antichrist Satan..

You see what I said you have to take each seal and trumpet and vial and line them in up to each seal and line them up to each trumpet and vial...

Take the first seal then line those things and them up to the first trumpet and vial.

Take the 6th seal, 6th trumpet and 6th vial
Notice if you put them together
Which will equal 666, the number of Satan's 666.
Anything that speaks of the devil, dragon,Satan. This all will line up to the
6 seal 6 trumpet 6 vial. equals 666.this being Satan's number 666.

And anything that has The Lord Jesus Christ mentioned of will go with
7 seal 7 trumpet 7 vial.
This being Jesus Christ number 777.
God's number of completeness.
Just so you know..we are now in the
5 seal 5 trumpet 5 vial of Revelation.

Which means Jesus Christ comes at the
7 seal 7 trumpet 7 vial..
Do you see how close the world is to the coming of Christ Jesus..
Hmmm. I wonder why you keep insinuating that no one else reads but you.
Anyway, you see the rider of the white horse different, because... "a crown was given him...but nothing like a crown a real crown a king has.."
o_O

And you don't think Christ will conquer?
I feel sorry for you, whoever Faithofchristian is.
(Psalm 2:4-12)
4 The One enthroned in the heavens will laugh; Jehovah will scoff at them. 5 At that time he will speak to them in his anger And terrify them in his burning anger, 6 Saying: “I myself have installed my king On Zion, my holy mountain.” 7 Let me proclaim the decree of Jehovah; He said to me: “You are my son; Today I have become your father. 8 Ask of me, and I will give nations as your inheritance And the ends of the earth as your possession. 9 You will break them with an iron scepter, And you will smash them like a piece of pottery.” 10 So now, you kings, show insight; Accept correction, you judges of the earth. 11 Serve Jehovah with fear, And rejoice with trembling. 12 Honor the son, or God will become indignant And you will perish from the way, For His anger flares up quickly. Happy are all those taking refuge in Him.

(Psalm 110:1, 2)
1 Jehovah declared to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.” 2 Jehovah will extend the scepter of your power out of Zion, saying: “Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

(2 Thessalonians 1:7-9)
7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength,

Who is the conquering king here... Satan?
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
The covenant Jesus said he would make is the same covenant God made with Abraham. However, that covenant did not come into force until Jesus gave his life as the testator of that covenant (Heb 9:16-17).
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
After the mortal evil king (red dragon) brings about God's judgment upon His people, as directed by Christ and his saints, the red dragon king will be thrown down from heaven (his rule over the earth) and the victors will be the 144,000 mortals. With the help of Michael the archangel and his angels.

The red dragon and his angels are all mortal men.

Rev 12:7 And there was war in heaven; Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.

Rev 12:11 And they conquered him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives until death.

The heaven in which this mortal king is to be thrown down is not the heaven in the sky. These things are going to take place on earth, as they are God's judgements manifest on earth.

Among the 144,000 Jews is a woman who is to give birth to the mortal king who will be king over all Israel.
Michael and his angels. Not his saints.
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
something like that could only be known if you were in league with the demons .yet you are guessing .right ? safe to say you have been mislead . you dont want to believe and i fear it will be your undoing . to bad....


If you believe that Satan and his angels have already cast out of heaven..
Then Satan already have you deceived..

When Satan and his angels are finally cast out of heaven....you'll believe it's Jesus Christ come to rapture people out..

Until the real Jesus Christ shows up on the scene and catches everyone in the very act of worship and Satan.
And you are all done..

Then people will say..
"Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work" Matthew 7:22-23.
Have a good trip..
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Where's the scripture which excludes his other brethren from inheriting the kingdom of God?
His other brethren? Who are you referring to.
Also, since you have not produced any scripture to show they are included, why would you think they are?
If you are referring to men like Moses, David, Daniel, etc. as brothers, where does it ever call them that in scripture?
If you are asking which scripture(s) exclude such men, I just posted them.
Did you not read the post?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
The covenant Jesus said he would make is the same covenant God made with Abraham. However, that covenant did not come into force until Jesus gave his life as the testator of that covenant (Heb 9:16-17).
I fail to see why you put that scripture there, since it supports nothing you just said.
How could the covenant God made with Abraham be the same covenant made at Luke 22:28-30, when one required circumcision of the flesh, and the others did not? o_O
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
His other brethren? Who are you referring to.
Also, since you have not produced any scripture to show they are included, why would you think they are?
If you are referring to men like Moses, David, Daniel, etc. as brothers, where does it ever call them that in scripture?
If you are asking which scripture(s) exclude such men, I just posted them.
Did you not read the post?
All of them are sons of God and as such they are brethren of Christ. I thought you might at least know that. All of the faithful are part of one huge family.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
I fail to see why you put that scripture there, since it supports nothing you just said.
How could the covenant God made with Abraham be the same covenant made at Luke 22:28-30, when one required circumcision of the flesh, and the others did not? o_O
Obviously you don't know the covenant I'm speaking of. I'm talking about the covenant whereby Abraham himself is to inherit the land God promised him. Along with all those who have the faith of Abraham.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
Obviously you don't know the covenant I'm speaking of. I'm talking about the covenant whereby Abraham himself is to inherit the land God promised him. Along with all those who have the faith of Abraham.
The one where God said he and his offspring must be circumcised.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
@LightofTruth you are referring to the covenant, where all the nations will be blessed? Okay. Still, that covenant is not the one made by Jesus to his followers. That's why it's new... not old.
It's not the Abrahamic covenant.
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
The one where God said he and his offspring must be circumcised.
Yeah, the token which signified the cutting off of the sins of the flesh. Yeah, that sign.

The inheritance to all the faithful like Abraham still stands. It is still the day of salvation.
All those faithful ones will be raised from the dead or translated from among the living at Christ's coming
 

LightofTruth

Well-Known Member
@LightofTruth you are referring to the covenant, where all the nations will be blessed? Okay. Still, that covenant is not the one made by Jesus to his followers. That's why it's new... not old.
It's not the Abrahamic covenant.
The new is older than the old at Mount Sinai. Because the only covenant that can save anyone is the covenant God made with Abraham.
 
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