The 144,000 and the "Rapture" (Christians only)

[Deeje]

This discussion has been transferred from another forum.

Concerning the 144,000:

To be bought from among mankind as first fruits does not necessarily imply that they had been made immortal.

The 144,000 are seen with the Lamb on Mount Zion, (which pictures the seat of God's worship in heaven, not any earthly geographical location as Jesus indicated in John 4:21) whereas a "great crowd" are seen as surviving the great tribulation which occurs on earth. (Revelation 14:1; Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14)

To be "firstfruits" they have to be the first and best of a crop. The "first resurrection" is for those chosen to rule with Christ. (Revelation 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:16)

"for you were bought with a price. By all means, glorify God in your body."

"You were bought with a price; stop becoming slaves of men."

"These are those who have not been defiled with women, for they are virgins"

All of those redeemed from among mankind have been "bought with a price"....the precious blood of Jesus Christ. That includes those of the 144,000 and the "great crowd".

The "virginity" of the chosen ones is not physical, since many of them have been married...this is a spiritual virginity, just as Israel's excursions into false worship was referred to by God as "adultery"....unfaithfulness.

Only those who are part of the "first resurrection" are raised to immortal spirit life. It is God who chooses them, and he anoints them with his spirit.

"And I heard another voice from heaven saying, "Come out from her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins, and so that you will not receive her plagues, "

The devil has an empire of false religion so as to cater for all the human race in order to direct worship away from the true God, and picked up by the pretender, satan. The order from Jehovah to "get out of Babylon the great" is a command to leave all forms of false worship.....but the most reprehensible part of the devil's empire is Christendom, because they represent the "weeds" of Jesus parable.....a counterfeit "Christianity" that has ensnared the majority of those who identify as "Christians". Most have no idea that what they have been led to believe is not true....it is a complete departure from what Jesus taught.

I think the 144,000 who know the Lamb and his Father are going to be faithful believers who have developed in Jerusalem after the rapture and who will not worship the beast and his image. And those mortals will be the ones who will win the victory in the end(with the help of Jesus and his immortal saints) over those who worship the beast.
The 144,000 will be the mortal ones who are to restore the kingdom of God on earth. Working behind the scenes in all this will be the heavenly kingdom of immortal ones as represented by the four living creatures and the elders.

What you refer to as "the rapture" is the transformation of the chosen ones from human form to spirit creatures. When does this take place?

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18.....
"Moreover, brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who are sleeping in death, so that you may not sorrow as the rest do who have no hope. 14 For if we have faith that Jesus died and rose again, so too God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in death through Jesus. 15 For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; 16 because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. 17 Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord. 18 So keep comforting one another with these words."

Only with Christ's return do these events take place....so no human went to heaven until Jesus came back to take them "home". (John 14:2-4) Has Jesus returned already? Has the "first resurrection" already taken place? Is the "rapture" a separate event? How does Jesus "bring with him" those who have experienced the "first resurrection" if he has not yet arrived?

When God's judgments are in the earth, the immortal saints who had been resurrected or translated, are to take part in executing those judgements along with Jesus. Those judgments will come in the form of war, famine and pestilence. Until the time (3.5 years) when the victory of the faithful 144,000 is won. Then the kingdom of God will be established on the earth, and it will continue for 1,000 years.

The sign that Jesus gave in Matthew 24:3-14 was given to mark his "presence" (parousia) not his "coming".
Why is that significant? Because Jesus' "presence" needed a "sign" to show that it had taken place....you don't need a "sign" for something obvious.

At Acts 1:11, the angels who appeared at Jesus' ascension said.....“Men of Galʹi·lee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus who was taken up from you into the sky will come in the same manner as you have seen him going into the sky.” How many saw Jesus departure? Only his apostles, so when he was to return "in the same manner", again it was not to be a public event, but only recognised by his anointed ones.

If Jesus' "parousia" was a separate event to his "coming" as judge to execute the wicked, (indicating a timeframe for all of the features of the "sign" to be observed, and for the preaching of "the good news of the kingdom" to be completed. Matthew 24:14) then the first resurrection has already taken place, and when the final part of these days comes, culminating in the "end" of the present system of things, then the "rapture" or the transformation of the remaining ones of the anointed, will take place and the Kingdom will "come" in a very real way make it possible for God's will to "be done on earth as it is in heaven". (Daniel 2:44)

 

[Father Heathen]

So even heaven has a class/caste system?

 

[LightofTruth]

This discussion has been transferred from another forum.



The 144,000 are seen with the Lamb on Mount Zion, (which pictures the seat of God's worship in heaven, not any earthly geographical location as Jesus indicated in John 4:21) whereas a "great crowd" are seen as surviving the great tribulation which occurs on earth. (Revelation 14:1; Revelation 7:9-10; 13-14)

To be "firstfruits" they have to be the first and best of a crop. The "first resurrection" is for those chosen to rule with Christ. (Revelation 20:6; 1 Thessalonians 4:16)

David's throne was not in the sky above the earth, it was in Zion, and on Mount Zion. And that is where Christ is to rule, in Jerusalem.

So I guess we disagree about where David's throne was. I think it was on the earth.

 

[Deeje]

David's throne was not in the sky above the earth, it was in Zion, and on Mount Zion. And that is where Christ is to rule, in Jerusalem.

Jesus said that the time was coming when a geographical location would no longer be the seat of God's worship as it had been in the days of King David (John 4:21)....surely you can't believe that literal Jerusalem today is in any way sacred to God since the Jews rejected the Christ? The Temple, which represented the seat of God's worship on literal Mt Zion, was destroyed in 70 CE and has never been rebuilt. Since it was rebuild twice before, the Jews must be wondering why it was never commanded for them to build it again.....perhaps the reasons for the two destructions might give them a clue....?

The earthly temple was symbolic of the greater spiritual Temple in heaven. Mt Zion, as pictured in Revelation 14:1 is in heaven. Those who would serve as priests in this Temple are not humans of flesh and blood because humans cannot exist outside of earth's atmosphere. Those "kings and priests" will serve God in his spiritual Temple in heaven. There was no earthly priesthood in Christianity....it was only bestowed when they went to heaven. Revelation 20:6, written long after Jesus death and resurrection, (at the end of the first century) said that they will be "kings and priests", not that they already were. Jesus became the High Priest in that Temple.

So I guess we disagree about where David's throne was. I think it was on the earth.

David's throne was originally on earth as God's purpose in connection with his Christ was not yet finalized.
Once Christ came, the Jews were no longer living in their God-given homeland, but had dispersed and spread out into foreign territory. Rome was the dominant world power at the time and the Jews were chafing under their dominion.

Jerusalem today no longer represents what it once did....it is the site of bickering and bloodshed, not exactly a fitting place for God throne any more. Jesus lamented....
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matthew 23:37-39)

According to Jesus, God has abandoned the disobedient Jews as his people....they are now just part of the blood spilling nations. (Isaiah 1:15)

 

[Deeje]

So even heaven has a class/caste system?

Rank, rules and order.....you can't have peace without them.

 

[Deeje]

What is being debated?

Who are the 144,000?
What is their purpose?
Where do they reside?
What is the "rapture" and who experiences it?

Got any thoughts?

 

[LightofTruth]

Jesus said that the time was coming when a geographical location would no longer be the seat of God's worship as it had been in the days of King David (John 4:21)....surely you can't believe that literal Jerusalem today is in any way sacred to God since the Jews rejected the Christ? The Temple, which represented the seat of God's worship on literal Mt Zion, was destroyed in 70 CE and has never been rebuilt. Since it was rebuild twice before, the Jews must be wondering why it was never commanded for them to build it again.....perhaps the reasons for the two destructions might give them a clue....?

The earthly temple was symbolic of the greater spiritual Temple in heaven. Mt Zion, as pictured in Revelation 14:1 is in heaven. Those who would serve as priests in this Temple are not humans of flesh and blood because humans cannot exist outside of earth's atmosphere. Those "kings and priests" will serve God in his spiritual Temple in heaven. There was no earthly priesthood in Christianity....it was only bestowed when they went to heaven. Revelation 20:6, written long after Jesus death and resurrection, (at the end of the first century) said that they will be "kings and priests", not that they already were. Jesus became the High Priest in that Temple.



David's throne was originally on earth as God's purpose in connection with his Christ was not yet finalized.
Once Christ came, the Jews were no longer living in their God-given homeland, but had dispersed and spread out into foreign territory. Rome was the dominant world power at the time and the Jews were chafing under their dominion.

Jerusalem today no longer represents what it once did....it is the site of bickering and bloodshed, not exactly a fitting place for God throne any more. Jesus lamented....
"Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the killer of the prophets and stoner of those sent to her—how often I wanted to gather your children together the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings! But you did not want it. 38 Look! Your house is abandoned to you. 39 For I say to you, you will by no means see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in Jehovah’s name!’” (Matthew 23:37-39)

According to Jesus, God has abandoned the disobedient Jews as his people....they are now just part of the blood spilling nations. (Isaiah 1:15)

The heaven from which John heard the voice of the singing of the 144,000 is the same heaven where the dragon is to be cast out. It is after the dragon is cast out that the 144,000 will stand on Mount Zion and sing in victory.
Not only is heaven (in the sky) the place of God's throne but heaven(on earth) is also the place where kings of the earth rule. There are high places on earth just as heaven is a high place.
The dragon king will be cast out of that heaven by the remnant who did not worship the beast and by Jesus and his immortal saints who will be executing those judgments to aid the 144,000(remnant) to victory.

Zephaniah speaks of that remnant:

"I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid." Zep 3:12-13

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Jerusalem is where God's judgments are to be executed. it's not till after those judgments are executed that God's kingdom will be established on earth. And the remnant 144,000 will be the beginning of the kingdom on earth.

 

[Deeje]

The heaven from which John heard the voice of the singing of the 144,000 is the same heaven where the dragon is to be cast out. It is after the dragon is cast out that the 144,000 will stand on Mount Zion and sing in victory.

I believe that to be a past event. As soon as the Kingdom began its rule over earthly subjects, the first thing Jesus did as King was to evict satan and his hordes from heaven.....indeed it must have been quite a victory song.

Revelation 12:7-12...
"And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them any longer in heaven. 9 So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. 10 I heard a loud voice in heaven say:

“Now have come to pass the salvation and the power and the Kingdom of our God and the authority of his Christ, because the accuser of our brothers has been hurled down, who accuses them day and night before our God! 11 And they conquered him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their witnessing, and they did not love their souls even in the face of death. 12 On this account be glad, you heavens and you who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing that he has a short period of time.”

Do you see what it says here? Christ gained his crown as King in heaven (seen prophetically in Daniel 7:13-14) and once he received that authority, he evicted the devil from heaven. So heaven was relieved to be rid of those rebels....but the earth was to be subject to woe because of them as they were now confined here. As their time was limited, they are desperate to gain as much ground as possible, so that they can take as many down with them as possible.

Not only is heaven (in the sky) the place of God's throne but heaven(on earth) is also the place where kings of the earth rule. There are high places on earth just as heaven is a high place.
The dragon king will be cast out of that heaven by the remnant who did not worship the beast and by Jesus and his immortal saints who will be executing those judgments to aid the 144,000(remnant) to victory.

As you can see from the quoted scripture, it was "Michael" the Archangel who performed the eviction. And the woe foretold for the earth is being experienced right now, as the devil's reign over the earth is coming to its end.

Zephaniah speaks of that remnant:

"I will also leave in the midst of thee an afflicted and poor people, and they shall trust in the name of the LORD.
The remnant of Israel shall not do iniquity, nor speak lies; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid." Zep 3:12-13

Rev 14:5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Yes, a remnant of "Israel" was always prophesied to come back to God....first after the Babylonian exiles and then the "lost sheep" who responded to Jesus were only a remnant of the natural Jews.....but it wasn't only natural Israel who ended up being among the "chosen ones".....Paul spoke about "the Israel of God" (Galatians 6:16) which, at the time he wrote that, was the Christian congregation, made up of both natural Jews and Gentiles. So this is "spiritual" Israel, not fleshly Israel whom Jesus has said were "abandoned" by God. (Romans 2:28-29; Matthew 23:37-39)

The 144,000 are thus made up of both Jewish and Gentile Christians. They are spiritual "virgins" not tainted with false religious beliefs, preaching and teaching what Jesus commanded them to teach. (Matthew 28:19-20; Matthew 24:14)

Jerusalem is where God's judgments are to be executed. it's not till after those judgments are executed that God's kingdom will be established on earth. And the remnant 144,000 will be the beginning of the kingdom on earth.

In Revelation, Jesus (who gave the angel the Revelation to give to John. Revelation 1:1) speaks of "New Jerusalem" coming down out of heaven to bring the Kingdom's rulership to the earth....
Revelation 21:1-4...
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

As Jesus concludes...."And the One seated on the throne said: “Look! I am making all things new.”

What a wonderful thing to look forward to!

 

[LightofTruth]

The prophecy of Revelation has not taken place yet. None of it.

When the door of heaven was opened, John saw four living creatures and elders around the throne of God. This, John says, happens on the Lord's day. The Lord's day is the day of the Lord when he will come to execute his judgments.

"Praise Yah. Sing to Yahweh a new song, his praise in the assembly of the faithful.
Let Israel be glad in its maker; let the children of Zion rejoice in their king.
Let them praise his name with dancing; let them sing praises to him with tambourine and lyre.
For Yahweh takes pleasure in his people; he glorifies the afflicted with salvation.
Let the faithful(saints) exult in glory; let them sing for joy on their beds.
Let the extolling of God be in their throat, and a double-edged sword in their hand,
to execute vengeance on the nations and punishment on the peoples,
to bind their kings with chains and their nobles with fetters of iron,
to execute on them the judgment that is decreed. This will be honor for all his faithful ones(saints); Praise Yah."

Those four living creatures and elders(the faithful ones made immortal, saints) are the ones who are to be raised from the dead or translated from among the living. And they are to come with Christ to execute God's judgment upon His people and the nations.

Jude says:

"And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.

" It shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people; and they shall beat their swords into plough-shares, and their spears into pruning-hooks : nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more." Isa 2

"...the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints(holy ones) with thee. " Zec 14:5

Paul says:

"Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?" 1 Cor 6:3

What John saw is to happen, happens on what is called the day of the Lord when he will come to execute his judgments upon his people and the nations. Those judgments will come in the form of war, famine and pestilence.
But before any of this happens, the man of lawlessness must be revealed. That man is the red dragon king who will command worship of the beast and his image However, the 144,000 out of the twelve tribes of Israel will not worship the beast and so they will be persecuted. But not to fear because Jesus and his saints (those who have been raptured) will come to execute God's judgments against the devil (red dragon king) and the nations.

After the victory is won, the kingdom of God will be established on earth. The 144,000 are the firstfruits of that kingdom to come.
And all the nations will know the Lord reigns in Jerusalem.

 

[LightofTruth]

This is what i think is going to happen.

Things in Jerusalem are going to get much worse. The Temple is going to get rebuilt. And the man of sin is going to be revealed. He will sit in that temple claiming for himself to be God and commanding worship. This man is called the Red Dragon. And he will be a king in Israel. He will be a king who has joined himself with the nations in false worship .But the nations will hate the harlot and seek to take her land, the spoil.
When this happens it is known as God's judgments upon his people. And those involve in executing these judgement are Christ and his saints. His saints are the ones who had been raised and translated before the judgments are made manifest.
The 144,000 are the remnant in Israel who do not worship the beast, the dragon, or the image, which is set up in the temple.
They will be the ones, with the help of Jesus and his saints to defeat the devil king and cast him out of his high place in Zion.
And after God judges His people, He will judge the nations by defeating them. They who think they have won the victory over Jerusalem to take the spoils will themselves taste the cup of the wrath of God.

This entire victory is won by the 144,000 out of the tribes of Israel who know the lamb and God and who refused to worship the beast.
They will be the beginning of the kingdom of God when it is established on earth after God judgments are fully executed.

The first resurrection spoken of is not the resurrection and translation of the faithful who come with Christ. That resurrection has NO translation of the living. It is called the first resurrection because that indicates another after it.

That means there must be a period of time between the rapture and the development of the 144,000 faithful. Just like there was a period of time after Jesus ascended to heaven and the temple was destroyed. So there will be a period of time between the rapture and the judgments.

 

[LightofTruth]

The reason there is no translation of the living during the first resurrection spoken of is because the living in these days are the 144,000 who will be the establishment of the kingdom on earth. The firstfruits of that kingdom. The first resurrection of Revelation are of those who were killed by the red dragon and his associates for refusing to worship the man(red dragon) who claims to be God.
When they are resurrected, they will rule the kingdom along with those who had been raised and translated earlier.

So there is going to be an invisible rule of Christ with his immortal angelic like saints and also a visible rule of the mortal 144,000 to restore the kingdom on earth.

 

[LightofTruth]

Understand who is the devil, Satan and the old serpent.

Paul says that where there is no law there is no sin and that he had not known sin except the law had said "thou shall not covet" To covet means to desire that which does not belong to you.

So the serpent represents man's inclination to take what is forbidden of him. The serpent(desire of the flesh) covets. Therefore, the serpent is the desire of the flesh as it opposes the law of God. IN that way, man knows what is sin. When Adam allowed his desire for the fruit to rule over him he ate the fruit. And thereby disobeyed the law of God and death followed. Adam had coveted(desired) the fruit before the actual transgression.

James says the same as Paul:

"Blessed is the person who endures testing, because when he is approved he will receive the crown of life that he has promised to those who love him.
No one who is being tempted should say, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one.
But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desires.
Then desire, after it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is brought to completion, gives birth to death.

it is therefore sin that has the power of death.

The devil was destroyed

"Therefore, since the children share in blood and flesh, he also in like manner shared in these same things, in order that through death he could destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil," Heb 2:14

The one who has the power of death is the one who covets for himself. It is the desires of the flesh of man who covets, and who sins, and who has brought death into the world.

So, in order to destroy the devil, Jesus had to be a partaker of the same flesh as the other children of God. And by Jesus' death the devil was destroyed because the flesh which has desires to covet and therefore sin was destroyed.

Death is It is the wages of sin. And sin comes from being dragged away and enticed by ones own desires. So the thing that has the power of death, the flesh, was destroyed on the cross.

The reason the devil still lives is because it was only Jesus' flesh that was crucified. The rest of us still have that same flesh and therefore can be tempted by it.

And that's how the man of lawlessness(red dragon, called the devil and Satan, old serpent) will be revealed before the coming of Jesus with his saints. He will be a man who embodies all the evil desires of the flesh to covet all that his prideful self can get.

 

[LightofTruth]

So just as Moses lifted up the serpent on a pole so that the childen of God could look to it and be healed, so must the son of man be lifted up on the cross as defeating the devil flesh. And all who look to him will be healed because he destroyed the serpent devil who has the power of death by the sacrifice of his own flesh.

 

[metis]

"144,000" could not have been written as such because the highest number back during Jesus' time was "1000", thus anything beyond that has to use other means.

Some Christian theologians believe the number may originally have been written as 12 12's 1000's, which could translate out to "holiness upon completion in numbers too high to count". "12" is a holy number in Hebrew, and it is also considered a number of completion (12 Tribes...), and "1000" would stand for great numbers if this hypothesis is correct.

So, if we put it all together, what the 144,000 could stand for is "a holy and complete people in numbers too great to count thus going to heaven". Is this the way it was meant? I have no clue.

 

[metis]

Did anyone else notice that the OP is a reference to "Christians only", and yet the JW's say they are the only "Christians" and the rest of us are in "Christendom"?

Just a wee bit inconsistent, maybe?

 

[LightofTruth]

Did anyone else notice that the OP is a reference to "Christians only", and yet the JW's say they are the only "Christians" and the rest of us are in "Christendom"?

Just a wee bit inconsistent, maybe?

Trinitarians are the same way. If you're not a trinitarian you're a heretic and member of a cult. I was kicked off of trinitarian forums as soon as they found out I wasn't one of them. And was also not wanted at their assemblies.

And that was before I even got to tell them about their spurious devil.

 

[metis]

Trinitarians are the same way. If you're not a trinitarian you're a heretic and member of a cult.

That's not been my experience with most Trinitarians, including most, but not all, of those here at RF. Nor do most of the mainline Protestants and the Catholic Church in my long experience on this say as such. Now fundamentalist Protestant churches are another matter by and large, and I used to belong to one.

 

[YoursTrue]

So even heaven has a class/caste system?

Do you believe there is a hierarchal order now on earth? By default sometimes? Here's another metaphor, or example -- a person goes to apply for a job. He can't hire himself, can he? (That's a question for you to answer...)
Regards.

 

[YoursTrue]

"144,000" could not have been written as such because the highest number back during Jesus' time was "1000", thus anything beyond that has to use other means.

Some Christian theologians believe the number may originally have been written as 12 12's 1000's, which could translate out to "holiness upon completion in numbers too high to count". "12" is a holy number in Hebrew, and it is also considered a number of completion (12 Tribes...), and "1000" would stand for great numbers if this hypothesis is correct.

So, if we put it all together, what the 144,000 could stand for is "a holy and complete people in numbers too great to count thus going to heaven". Is this the way it was meant? I have no clue.

Why don't you ask your priest?

 

[YoursTrue]

Understand who is the devil, Satan and the old serpent.

Paul says that where there is no law there is no sin and that he had not known sin except the law had said "thou shall not covet" To covet means to desire that which does not belong to you.

So the serpent represents man's inclination to take what is forbidden of him. The serpent(desire of the flesh) covets. Therefore, the serpent is the desire of the flesh as it opposes the law of God. IN that way, man knows what is sin. When Adam allowed his desire for the fruit to rule over him he ate the fruit. And thereby disobeyed the law of God and death followed. Adam had coveted(desired) the fruit before the actual transgression.

James says the same as Paul:

"Blessed is the person who endures testing, because when he is approved he will receive the crown of life that he has promised to those who love him.
No one who is being tempted should say, "I am being tempted by God," for God cannot be tempted by evil, and he himself tempts no one.
But each one is tempted when he is dragged away and enticed by his own desires.
Then desire, after it has conceived, gives birth to sin, and sin, when it is brought to completion, gives birth to death.

it is therefore sin that has the power of death.

The devil was destroyed

"Therefore, since the children share in blood and flesh, he also in like manner shared in these same things, in order that through death he could destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil," Heb 2:14

The one who has the power of death is the one who covets for himself. It is the desires of the flesh of man who covets, and who sins, and who has brought death into the world.

So, in order to destroy the devil, Jesus had to be a partaker of the same flesh as the other children of God. And by Jesus' death the devil was destroyed because the flesh which has desires to covet and therefore sin was destroyed.

Death is It is the wages of sin. And sin comes from being dragged away and enticed by ones own desires. So the thing that has the power of death, the flesh, was destroyed on the cross.

The reason the devil still lives is because it was only Jesus' flesh that was crucified. The rest of us still have that same flesh and therefore can be tempted by it.

And that's how the man of lawlessness(red dragon, called the devil and Satan, old serpent) will be revealed before the coming of Jesus with his saints. He will be a man who embodies all the evil desires of the flesh to covet all that his prideful self can get.

Thanks for bringing out that point about Paul not knowing sin except for the Law. Romans 7:7 - "What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."
And different religions calling themselves Christian have different ideas as to what sin is. Paul is right. The idea of adultery is clearly wrong as outlined in the Bible. So is stealing, And lying. But -- covet? That is something no man can really see into another. But Paul said he would not have known sin if the law did not describe it. (interesting.)