How Do We Move Away From Oil?

[The Hammer]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left. And even the oil companies are aware that oil is a finite resource that will not last forever. But how do we break the chain of oil production and consumption? In what ways can society move froward to be less Petroleum based?

Every aspect of our society, and even in some of the most far flung and remote locations on Earth are subject to this form of Carbon infrastructure and monetary liquidity. Everything from the gasoline we use for cars, trucks, and planes; the energy powering our major cities and towns; the plastics we use in everything from water bottles, to eyeglasses; and even cosmetics and carpeting. We are soaked in and utterly dependant upon this resource.

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

 

[columbus]

I don't think we're going to seriously move away from any of the bio-destructive tendencies we have as long as powerful religious folks keep convincing people that God will take care of things, later by magic.

I consider religion an existential threat to human existence.
Tom

ETA ~Religion keeps convincing people to believe in the authority of people who say the things we want to hear, and claim to be spokesmen for God. Prophets can say anything, and if people want to believe it, they will.~

ETA II ~By religion, I referring to the overwhelmingly dominant theological world view here where I live. That's conservative Abrahamic religion, mainly Christianity. Sorry for the confusion.~

 

[Estro Felino]

Very good topic.
I wanted to start a similar thread a couple of days ago.


Watching this video I cannot but have so many hopes about alternative sources of energy other than crude oil.
Hydrogen trains. Silent, clean, efficient.

 

[Left Coast]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left.

Is the timeframe the same for natural gas?

 

[Left Coast]

I don't think we're going to seriously move away from any of the bio-destructive tendencies we have as long as powerful religious folks keep convincing people that God will take care of things, later by magic.

I consider religion an existential threat to human existence.
Tom

ETA ~Religion keeps convincing people to believe in the authority of people who say the things we want to hear, and claim to be spokesmen for God. Prophets can say anything, and if people want to believe it, they will.~

"Religion" is not one monolithic thing. And we're perfectly capable of constructing rationales for self-destructiveness without religion.

 

[sun rise]

I consider religion an existential threat to human existence.

Whatever.

 

[columbus]

"Religion" is not one monolithic thing. And we're perfectly capable of constructing rationales for self-destructiveness without religion.

Sorry I didn't add enough caveats and qualifiers to suit you.
Tom
@sun rise

 

[sun rise]

We are moving away from oil with the growth of solar and other energy sources. Renewable energy is getting much more competitive and even cheaper than oil and gas in some instances.

There are aspects that need to be worked on such as recycling solar panels which have reached end of life etc, but I'm sure that can be solved.

 

[Left Coast]

Sorry I didn't add enough caveats and qualifiers to suit you.
Tom
@sun rise

Apology accepted.

 

[Spirit of Light]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left. And even the oil companies are aware that oil is a finite resource that will not last forever. But how do we break the chain of oil production and consumption? In what ways can society move froward to be less Petroleum based?

Every aspect of our society, and even in some of the most far flung and remote locations on Earth are subject to this form of Carbon infrastructure and monetary liquidity. Everything from the gasoline we use for cars, trucks, and planes; the energy powering our major cities and towns; the plastics we use in everything from water bottles, to eyeglasses; and even cosmetics and carpeting. We are soaked in and utterly dependant upon this resource.

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

There are many ways we could develop after the Oil has been used, but if we look at electric cars as an example, they are very good when they are made finish, but todays way of producing them actually harm the nature too, the battery they use has toxic components that polute the earth too.

So maybe windmills could be used? Well they are harming large area of nature on land, and take large area on sea. People call them ugly. And yes they do make noise.

Nuclear reactors? Well yes very good until they overheat and go bang in the night

There are many possabilities. But everyone has its own pr8blems one way or rhe other.

We just need to fine the one that give the least amount of problems.

 

[MNoBody]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left. And even the oil companies are aware that oil is a finite resource that will not last forever. But how do we break the chain of oil production and consumption? In what ways can society move froward to be less Petroleum based?

Every aspect of our society, and even in some of the most far flung and remote locations on Earth are subject to this form of Carbon infrastructure and monetary liquidity. Everything from the gasoline we use for cars, trucks, and planes; the energy powering our major cities and towns; the plastics we use in everything from water bottles, to eyeglasses; and even cosmetics and carpeting. We are soaked in and utterly dependant upon this resource.

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

with great difficulty, apparently, since the system of energy delivery was constructed to create a monopoly, centred around a specific model. it wasn't built to be easy to avoid as it is the end product of the 2nd WW which was for energy dominance.

 

[Brickjectivity]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left. And even the oil companies are aware that oil is a finite resource that will not last forever. But how do we break the chain of oil production and consumption? In what ways can society move froward to be less Petroleum based?

Every aspect of our society, and even in some of the most far flung and remote locations on Earth are subject to this form of Carbon infrastructure and monetary liquidity. Everything from the gasoline we use for cars, trucks, and planes; the energy powering our major cities and towns; the plastics we use in everything from water bottles, to eyeglasses; and even cosmetics and carpeting. We are soaked in and utterly dependant upon this resource.

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

Cost is the deciding factor. Since the price of solar panels has dropped drastically by magnitudes the deciding cost, now, is the storage cost. Battery technology is also dropping in cost. The price of lithium ion batteries has decreased. Many other methods are being tried and new ones developed including gravity based energy storage.

The second most important factor is power density. Fossil fuel is a dense power source. Its portable. Its cheap. You could run power tools off of a cell phone powered by gasoline. Batteries are relatively less dense, which means for an equivalent amount of power you need more storage space and more mass. The power density in cell phone batteries today is amazing compared to what was possible years ago, but its not as energy-dense as all of that stuff under the Earth's crust. Still, lithium ion is good enough for many things; and better batteries are probably going to appear on the market, too.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I have an idea. I love the batteries that come with power drills. I would like it if I had a belt that would accept one of those to charge my phone in my pocket and to make me into a portable power source. It wouldn't be convenient in my hand but on a belt, in a purse, maybe on a shoulder strap it would be nice. I could extend my cell phone charge for days.

On top of that you could sell other accessories powered by such a belt. How about an electric pocket knife that lets you carve wood effortlessly?

 

[QuestioningMind]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left. And even the oil companies are aware that oil is a finite resource that will not last forever. But how do we break the chain of oil production and consumption? In what ways can society move froward to be less Petroleum based?

Every aspect of our society, and even in some of the most far flung and remote locations on Earth are subject to this form of Carbon infrastructure and monetary liquidity. Everything from the gasoline we use for cars, trucks, and planes; the energy powering our major cities and towns; the plastics we use in everything from water bottles, to eyeglasses; and even cosmetics and carpeting. We are soaked in and utterly dependant upon this resource.

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

We could do it practically overnight, if we had the will to do so. If the billions in subsidies that have been given to the oil industry over the past 40 years had been spent on the development of solar energy we could have phased out oil by now. If we as a nation had simply made it our number one goal... like we did when we decided to send a man to the moon... effective reasonable priced solar panels could have been designed within a decade, at most. The only thing stopping us from eliminating oil usage are the oil companies who don't want to lose what has been by far the most profitable industry in history.

 

[The Hammer]

We are moving away from oil with the growth of solar and other energy sources. Renewable energy is getting much more competitive and even cheaper than oil and gas in some instances.

There are aspects that need to be worked on such as recycling solar panels which have reached end of life etc, but I'm sure that can be solved.

This still requires the resource exploitation of Lithium, another destructive process; in order to manufacture the batteries used for energy storage in these cases though. And renewable energy (wind, solar, hydro), still doesn't address the other myriad of products that are made from Petroleum based products (plastics).

 

[Nakosis]

The title explains the premise of my discussion I would like to start.

We have, barring technological advancements, around 49-120 years of oil left. And even the oil companies are aware that oil is a finite resource that will not last forever. But how do we break the chain of oil production and consumption? In what ways can society move froward to be less Petroleum based?

Every aspect of our society, and even in some of the most far flung and remote locations on Earth are subject to this form of Carbon infrastructure and monetary liquidity. Everything from the gasoline we use for cars, trucks, and planes; the energy powering our major cities and towns; the plastics we use in everything from water bottles, to eyeglasses; and even cosmetics and carpeting. We are soaked in and utterly dependant upon this resource.

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

The energy companies are working on this. The delay was so the big energy companies could develop and control the technology. The "Oil" companies have been aware of the problem probably longer than the public about limited resources. They are the ones with the billions developing alternative energy.

 

[The Hammer]

We could do it practically overnight, if we had the will to do so. If the billions in subsidies that have been given to the oil industry over the past 40 years had been spent on the development of solar energy we could have phased out oil by now. If we as a nation had simply made it our number one goal... like we did when we decided to send a man to the moon... effective reasonable priced solar panels could have been designed within a decade, at most. The only thing stopping us from eliminating oil usage are the oil companies who don't want to lose what has been by far the most profitable industry in history.

While I don't disagree with what you are saying, the past cannot be changed, or corrected for. What can we do now? The oil complex and infrastructure is much more, well, complex than just let's stop using and drilling for oil. The entire financial industry (around the world) is tied up in the "liquidity" of oil. For instance the majority of oil that is bought and sold around the world, never actually goes anywhere, it is merely moved around monetarily via international banking institutions.

 

[columbus]

This still requires the resource exploitation of Lithium, another destructive process; in order to manufacture the batteries used for energy storage in these cases though. And renewable energy (wind, solar, hydro), still doesn't address the other myriad of products that are made from Petroleum based products (plastics).

Here's a suggestion.

Use a combination of Capitalism and socialism. Put a $150/BL tax on petroleum, whether domestic or imported. Something comparable on gas and coal.
Use the proceeds to pay down the Federal debt and finance the cultural shift towards a sustainable culture.

How about that? Think any of the Republocratic politicians would exhibit that much leadership? Can we get rid of them, short of civil war?
Tom

 

[metis]

How do we let it go, without simultaneously crashing the society it has helped foster?

Treat it as an "evolution", not a "revolution". Green energy, which now employs more people in the U.S. than oil and coal combined. Nuclear energy if needed. More efficiency with building insulation, including houses. Great emphasis on railroads and shipping versus trucks and planes over long distances. Etc.

We have made significant strides already, and we should continue on with this process, imo.

 

[BSM1]

We are moving away from oil with the growth of solar and other energy sources. Renewable energy is getting much more competitive and even cheaper than oil and gas in some instances.

There are aspects that need to be worked on such as recycling solar panels which have reached end of life etc, but I'm sure that can be solved.

Could you give us a link to your claim? I have been looking at solar energy since 1974. It was not cost effective then, and it is not cost effective now. If it were a viable source of energy, you'd have SP sales people on every street corner.