cataway
Well-Known Member
a agent of God
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John 1:1 - The JW's NWT vs TNIV/KJV, the age old question
- Thread starter firedragon
- Start date
Thief
Rogue Theologian
did you take the red pill?......or the blue one?
firedragon
Veteran Member
This is not about the theological debate "Is Jesus God", this is the difference in rendering a Koine Greek script.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I see discussion of .....trinity
and that would beg the question.....is Jesus ......God?
I think the trinity is a misconception
God is a Person in His own Spirit
The Holy Ghost would be the power and display of His Presence
His Word
any of us can be a son of God
firedragon
Veteran Member
But that's not relevant to this thread.
firedragon
Veteran Member
Well, as any theology and division of course both of them accuse each other. But lets get to the text.
Well, there is no definitive article in the sentence "Theos en o logos" so its a justifiable objection in the part of the JW's. Yet, without any article how did they translate it as "a God"?
How did the Christians translate it as "the word was God" with out a definitive article and just saying theos is only an attribution as Edgar Goodspeed says?
Whats the justification?
Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
Where does Goodspeed say that?
firedragon
Veteran Member
Please brother, read his translation.
Redemptionsong
Well-Known Member
A sound exegesis of scripture looks to unveil what God intended by His words. To gain this objective perspective one cannot take a single verse of scripture and build the totality of one's theology around it.
The reason translators have translated John 1:1 as 'the Word was God', is because this is wholly in keeping with the personification of the Word in 1 John 1:1,2 and Revelation 19:13.
Look closely at 1 John 1:1,2 which says this:
'That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;
(For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us).
The Word remained dormant with the Father until the time of creation. The Father creates with his Word, making the Word the first of creation, 'from the beginning'.
When the full measure of the Word resides in flesh, we have Jesus Christ. It is he who is heard, seen and touched. He is the 'resurrection and the life', 'manifested unto us'. [IMO]
firedragon
Veteran Member
Its a textual/linguistic question brother. But I understand your point.
By the way, your username is one of my all-time favourite songs. Cheers.
Terry Sampson
Well-Known Member
Goodspeed and The Deity of Christ – Alpha and Omega Ministries
"The following article was originally published in the July/August and September/October 1986 issue of The Dividing Line Theological Journal. The article is presented in its entirety as it was published.:
GOODSPEED AND THE DEITY OF CHRIST [Article attached below.]
"The following article was originally published in the July/August and September/October 1986 issue of The Dividing Line Theological Journal. The article is presented in its entirety as it was published.:
GOODSPEED AND THE DEITY OF CHRIST [Article attached below.]
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
indeed.....but as we are in the religious debate section
rather than scripture debate.....
the play of words and punctuation take second place
up front.....trinity?
I think not.....as most believers leaning to that line of thought
want to regard the trinity as THREE persons
all sharing a simultaneous existence
all three as one
from the beginning
I don't believe that
God the Creator......FIRST
Spirit.....FIRST
if God wants to be in multiple locations at once ......He can do that
but that would be like talking to His own Reflection
and hearing only His own Echo
that would not be a second Person
or a Third
firedragon
Veteran Member
Maybe you are right in saying this is the religious debate division but yet, the question is a linguistic issue. It’s not a debate about the trinity.
Thus I respectfully decline in debating the trinity here. Cheers.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
Google is your friend here. Jesus is God, not "a God", in numerous verses.
BilliardsBall
Veteran Member
I only have a year of Greek from university, but it's hard to render Koine Greek as Jesus is "a god of several/many gods" when hundreds of verses/passages give the alternate sense.
Hi @firedragon
Can you explain just what it is you are asking that is different than similar questions regarding John 1:1.
You correctly say that there is no definitive article in the phrase "Theos en o logos" but then ask "how did they translate it as "a God"?
Since "Theos en o logos" IS the way one writes "the word was a God", I am not sure what justification one needs? Are you asking why theological belief should over-ride greek grammar in this case? Can you clarify what are you asking?
You also ask how it was translated as "the word was God" without a definitive article.
Are you asking why the translators assumed "Theos" without the article was [the] God? Again, are you asking regarding theological position of the translators (which underlies their translations)? Can you clarify what are you asking?
You refer to Theos as "only an attributtion". Can you explain what you think "an attribution" means in this specific case?
Thanks
φθτζφιω
Clear
Seems to me for the same reason that Jehovah gave the human judges of Psalms 82 as 'gods'.
Those judges worked in the capacity of being representatives or spokes persons for Jehovah.
Besides those judges, I find at Exodus 7 that Jehovah made Moses as ' god ' to Pharaoh..........
But, why does John say "a god"?