Gay Christian

[Kenny]

Just as the judge.
The accused murder to the Judge: You can't convict me. I had no choice,
The judge: Neither have I.

Now that you can think, doesn't mean that you have free will. And now I have tried and I didn't find free will.

very philosophical. Not much sense but very philosophical

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You don't believe. Belief is based on evidence. When it comes to Christianity there's a lot of it.

I don't know what to say. Our individual ways of understand the world are to different to talk about this in any productive way.
I hope that you have a good life and that your faith works for you.

 

[firedragon]

Goodness, my remark was addressed to the air, not to you. Mea culpa.
Mea culpa again. Go well!

Great. Cheers.

 

[blü 2]

I did th ink about your sexuality.

If you read Romans it says "all have sinned"... so why would I throw the first rock?

But whats the difference between gay-bashing and Christian bashing? Both are bashing. Are you Christophobic?

I've never liked labeling my position, but on uncomplicated humanist grounds I dislike ─ and if I listen to Pat Robertson, which can only happen by accident, strongly dislike ─ the Christian right.

One of the things they are that I'm not is homophobic. As I said to you before, decency, respect, inclusion, and if that's not pleasing to God, let God make [his] own arrangements.

I have a number of Christian friends, and believing relatives, who are very dear to me, not to mention a close Buddhist buddy from way back. When I dine with them, and do Christmas with them, and when I dine with my fellow unbelievers, we never talk about religion ─ or at the least, I never raise it, and I routinely say very little. But RF is a forum for such things, and like the late Beliefnet (where I started) it's a great clarifier of my thoughts on life, morality, the universe and of course 42.

 

[blü 2]

Thanks, but not interested, I believe we are more than just a bunch of bio-chemical interactions.

Oliver Cromwell famously said, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, consider that you might be wrong."

I frequently consider that I might be wrong. The good thing about being wrong is how much it teaches you, and how quickly: the thump of feeling stupid passes but the learnt thing remains ─ or so I've found.

But these are matters for you, of course.

 

[Kenny]

Oliver Cromwell famously said, "I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, consider that you might be wrong."

I frequently consider that I might be wrong. The good thing about being wrong is how much it teaches you, and how quickly: the thump of feeling stupid passes but the learnt thing remains ─ or so I've found.

But these are matters for you, of course.

The dividing line for me is........ God

 

[blü 2]

The dividing line for me is........ God

Hmm.

Hmm.

Well,

well, okay, I guess.

 

[February-Saturday]

But you see, how you "feel about the issue" means absolutely nothing. It is not, you see, your issue.

Try living your own life, and as Jesus admonished you, keep your judgments to yourself.

It's not your issue either, although you're quick to judge my judgments. I find your lack of self-awareness about your own hypocrisy fascinating.

More interesting, I think, is the total lack of conversation we're having right now that's mostly filled by your vain, tangential hostility towards me. I'm not interested in your rubbish.

 

[Mitty]

Is that what you are so afraid of, anal sex? You do know that many heterosexual couples try that, too, don't you? In fact, research shows that not all male homosexuals engage in anal sex at all, and it is not at all uncommon among heterosexual couples.

It's personally irrelevant to me, but obviously the bible only refers to anal sex in Leviticus 18 & 20 and Romans 1:26-27 and compares it to eating oysters since it describes it as disgusting too. Which is why the bible says nothing at all about same-sex activities of females.
http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1817706/images/o-OYSTERS-facebook.jpg

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

It's not your issue either, although you're quick to judge my judgments. I find your lack of self-awareness about your own hypocrisy fascinating.

More interesting, I think, is the total lack of conversation we're having right now that's mostly filled by your vain, tangential hostility towards me. I'm not interested in your rubbish.

How do I respond to another human without judging the other human? Well, I don't follow my own advice always, but here is the "rule". Don't tell her/him that is wrong or what not? I simply state that I do it differently. And leave it there.

So I don't claim that I know if it is better/right or worse/wrong, what the other human do. I simply explain what I do and how it works for me.

 

[columbus]

Hmm.

Hmm.

Well,

well, okay, I guess.

There are some folks, especially religious folks, I just don't respond to any more.
Tom

 

[blü 2]

There are some folks, especially religious folks, I just don't respond to any more.
Tom

ASt the moment, I sort of have this mantra, Decency, Respect, Inclusion, and I'm inclined to think that if you're talking to someone who holds with that, not much else matters.

Of course, like everyone else here, I'm still learning.

 

[Mitty]

You don't believe. Belief is based on evidence. When it comes to Christianity there's a lot of it.

What is the evidence for Christian belief apart from some imaginative stories in a book?

 

[Mitty]

All you're doing is complaining that man is less than God. It is possible for man to have free will, but not the kind of free will that God himself possesses. Man is constrained by his physical limitations, that is clear, but he is not constrained spiritually now that the gospel has come. The grace of God has come to all. All can reject or accept it.

Why didn't that god give it's grace to any of the OT characters, given that none of them went to heaven (John 3:13)?

 

[eik]

Why didn't that god give it's grace to any of the OT characters, given that none of them went to heaven (John 3:13)?

It doesn't say no Old Testament saints went to heaven. John 3:13 says no-one elevated themselves to heaven whilst on earth, as the son of Man, i.e. the son of Man had no equal amonst men.

 

[eik]

What is the evidence for Christian belief apart from some imaginative stories in a book?

Stories proved true by history and archaeology. Yet the sheer cohesiveness of the revelation of God through thousands of years culminating in Christ is undeniable and irrebuttable. Then there is the Christian experience which is likewise undeniable and irrebuttable.

 

[Mitty]

It doesn't say no Old Testament saints went to heaven. John 3:13 says no-one elevated themselves to heaven whilst on earth, as the son of Man, i.e. the son of Man had no equal amonst men.

In other words Moses & Noah & Abraham & David never went to heaven (John 3:13) even though David was his god's begotten son, since they didn't believe in Jesus and didn't repent.

 

[Mitty]

Stories proved true by history and archaeology. Yet the sheer cohesiveness of the revelation of God through thousands of years culminating in Christ is undeniable and irrebuttable. Then there is the Christian experience which is likewise undeniable and irrebuttable.

It's still just imaginative stories in a book. And doesn't change the fact that biblical morality is obviously just man-made since the ten commandments etc did not apply to Abraham et al and their ancestors, nor to our aborigines who arrived here over 50,000 years before Adam's grandmother was a girl.

 

[eik]

Oh, good, so now only liberals can be corrupt. Typical!!

I didn't say that, But an education devoid of morality (unless you study law or religion) that the current world is in love with is not what used to be the case. It's no wonder that our education systems churn out atheists in abundance.

That is mere opinion and taste. There's not a Muslim alive who wouldn't tell you that the Qur'an surpassed them, and that it itself has never been surpassed in the field of human history.

They can't even understand the Koran. Note I didn't extend my praise to the whole bible. Just some parts that are sublime and far superior to anything in the Koran.

For myself, I'll take Shakespeare, Dostoevsky, Sei Shonagun and a thousand other authors over those you think are unsurpassable.

I mean intellectually unsurpassable. Of course there are many good books. I even like the Tao Te Ching myself. The Chinese are wise in their own way. Every major nation has its wisdom books. But I think that parts of the New Testament are so superlative in spiritual insight that they cannot ever be surpassed by mere human wisdom.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Stories proved true by history and archaeology. Yet the sheer cohesiveness of the revelation of God through thousands of years culminating in Christ is undeniable and irrebuttable. Then there is the Christian experience which is likewise undeniable and irrebuttable.

Stories proved true by history and archaeology. - All so for Islam.
Yet the sheer cohesiveness of the revelation of God through thousands of years culminating in Christ is undeniable and irrebuttable. - No, because there is no version version of Christianity and further for all of humanity, there is no one version of God as such.
Then there is the Christian experience which is likewise undeniable and irrebuttable. - The same for non-Christians or between different Christians.

All you are in effect saying is that you believe as you do. I accept that as it works for you and I accept that you properly don't accept that it works for me to believe differently.