Does God welcome everyone into heaven?

[Trailblazer]

This question is for believers and nonbelievers.

If God exists/existed would God welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? For example, would God welcome a mass murderer into heaven and treat him the same way as a person who had lived a noble life serving others and worshiping God?

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

If you think God would not welcome everyone into heaven why wouldn’t God do that?

 

[shunyadragon]

This question is for believers and nonbelievers.

If God exists/existed would God welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? For example, would God welcome a mass murderer into heaven and treat him the same way as a person who had lived a noble life serving others and worshiping God?

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

If you think God would not welcome everyone into heaven why wouldn’t God do that?

The basic teaching of the Baha'i Faith is the journey through many worlds beyond this world toward God through the compassion of God for his Creation, The outcome of the journey cannot be determined by us from our perspective. All we can do is cultivate the attributes of God in this world for our journey through the worlds beyond.

There are many other worlds like ours and Creations in the images of God in these worlds also in the journey also.

 

[whirlingmerc]

This question is for believers and nonbelievers.

If God exists/existed would God welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? For example, would God welcome a mass murderer into heaven and treat him the same way as a person who had lived a noble life serving others and worshiping God?

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

If you think God would not welcome everyone into heaven why wouldn’t God do that?

No, every parable concerning judgement Jesus taught had people who were redeemed and people who were not. there were wheat and tares, sheep and goats, good fish and bad fish.

1 John says 'he who believes in the Son has the life.."

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Because Earth is our home.
The Apostle John's vision of the future: "...the Tent of God is with mankind...And He will wipe every tear...no pain ...and death will be no more."

Revelation 21:3-4

 

[Trailblazer]

The basic teaching of the Baha'i Faith is the journey through many worlds beyond this world toward God through the compassion of God for his Creation, The outcome of the journey cannot be determined by use from our perspective. All we can do is cultivate the attributes of God in this world for our journey through the worlds beyond.

There are many other worlds like ours and Creations in the images of God in these worlds also in the journey also.

Thanks, I know about all of that, but my question was more specific, and obviously the answer would be based upon a personal opinion, since nobody knows what will actually happen in the afterlife.

What I am really asking is whether everyone would have the 'same' afterlife experience immediately upon dying, regardless of how they had lived their lives on earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Jesus taught had people who were redeemed and people who were not.

I tend to agree with you about the sheep and the goats although I probably have a slightly different 'criteria' for redemption.

 

[Trailblazer]

And He will wipe every tear...no pain ...and death will be no more."

But will everyone be in the same boat?

 

[whirlingmerc]

But will everyone be in the same boat?

no... the redeemed have their tears wiped away...

for those not redeemed "there is weeping and gnashing of teeth"

 

[Trailblazer]

for those not redeemed "there is weeping and gnashing of teeth"

That sounds kind of harsh. What about people who led very moral lives but did not believe in Jesus as Savior?

 

[columbus]

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

Because God wants Salvation for everyone.

And Almighty God always gets what Almighty God wants.

I don't personally believe this. I prefer to believe that death is just the end of our illusion of separation from God. We just return to The Original Source like a raindrop falling into the ocean.
Tom

 

[rational experiences]

When a human lives as a life equal and are harmed by all of the injustices that only serve the echelon that implement it, then we wonder what we did wrong to be so punished.

And yet the review of being punished is applied by the groups who choose to punish others by their own mentality.

O Earth is a stone planet, that created its own evolved gases that cooled in empty cold space. Radiation owns variations to being a cold gas or a hot gas depending on the amount of radiation. So we live in a gas mass that is both very cold and also burning.

That condition is a variable...and it affects the life living in Heaven. For we are already all living in Heaven. The gases surround the planet God and we are in God's Heaven.

We however do not live in the sky. We live on the ground.

If you ask humans living in Heaven, why is that other human so mean and nasty.

Science, doing fall out radiation ground attacks is that human answer.

And it is that teaching which was relative medical science advice that said, so humans do no evil for you then cause evil. And inherit the living conditions of very wrong choices....radiation changes....science.

 

[Nimos]

This question is for believers and nonbelievers.

If God exists/existed would God welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? For example, would God welcome a mass murderer into heaven and treat him the same way as a person who had lived a noble life serving others and worshiping God?

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

If you think God would not welcome everyone into heaven why wouldn’t God do that?

It depends who you ask and which Gospels and verses you read, to be honest it a bit all over the place.

(If you are to go with this, you are saved through faith in Christ, regardless of what sins you have committed)

Ephesians 2:1-10
1 You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
2 that you once practiced as you lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.
3 Indeed, all of us once behaved like them in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of our flesh and senses. By nature we were destined for wrath, just like everyone else.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love for us
5 even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),
6 raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly realm in the Messiah Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might display the limitless riches of his grace that comes to us through his kindness in the Messiah Jesus.
8 For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God
9 and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.
10 For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.

Galatians 2:16
16 yet we know that a person is not justified by doing what the Law requires, but rather by the faithfulness of Jesus the Messiah. We, too, have believed in the Messiah Jesus so that we might be justified by the faithfulness of the Messiah and not by doing what the Law requires, for no human being will be justified by doing what the Law requires.


If you are to believe Jesus (depending on which gospel you read), then you can only get to the father through Jesus, this is from John, which in general is a bit of a dodgy Gospel in my opinion, and in the older ones, Mark and Matthews you can only do it by doing the will of God (Meaning follow the law).

God himself say that there is no one besides him that can do it, not even Jesus, which seems to fit with the older Gospels. But then again you have the trinity and then maybe it possible, if you believe in that.

Then you have James that seem to disagree with Paul and agrees with Jesus that it is only by doing God's will. While Paul say that it is only through the faith in Jesus that you are saved.

So take you pick

 

[Trailblazer]

Because God wants Salvation for everyone.

And Almighty God always gets what Almighty God wants.

God might want it for everyone but I believe it has to be earned, not that it is a 'free gift.'

I don't personally believe this. I prefer to believe that death is just the end of our illusion of separation from God. We just return to The Original Source like a raindrop falling into the ocean.
Tom

Do you believe that God is the Original Source?
I believe we return to God because Baha'u'llah wrote that "the soul, after its separation from the body, will continue to progress until it attaineth the presence of God" but I am not if sure that is true for everyone.

 

[shunyadragon]

Thanks, I know about all of that, but my question was more specific, and obviously the answer would be based upon a personal opinion, since nobody knows what will actually happen in the afterlife.

What I am really asking is whether everyone would have the 'same' afterlife experience immediately upon dying, regardless of how they had lived their lives on earth.

The bold I would say no, but nonetheless the judgement for our journey is determined through our development of the attributes of God and not the same for everyone.

 

[osgart]

If God is omnipotent then God Can save absolutely anyone and everybody because God would know how to conquer and redeem the most sinister of beings. God would know when to apply grace and when to apply punishment. So those in need of punishment God would able provide every punishment deserved to rectify the soul.

Why would eternal punishment last forever and ever. Either God can and won't, or can and will redeem all souls. I don't think it would be the case that God cannot do something. Even save the most sinister of beings.

Nothing would be beyond God's glory, and God's reach if God is God. The only thing God can not and will not do is commit evil.

If there is an all powerful Truth then forever punishment makes no sense. Do people really desire that all sinister souls get eternal punishment without ever able redeeming them?

Justice requires punishment. Mercy would be every bit as powerful as punishment. That's how I see omnipotence.

Plus I myself have no desire to see eternally rotting souls. If they can be saved after a few aeons or however long it takes then by all means let every sinister being be conquered and redeemed. I would rather something good can become of all that eternal punishment then let sinister beings linger on in unimaginable hell as sinister beings.

Is sinister so sinister that unimaginable hell couldn't rectify the situation? Is eternal hell without end necessary?

I would rather cease them to exist after their punishment then have an existence that is totally separate from God just exist forever and ever.

A forever change of heart would be a glorious thing to see happen. Even the most sinister of beings. I imagine getting exactly what they deserve would do the job. Truth stronger than evil they would eventually break. Virtue over vice.

 

[Trailblazer]

It depends who you ask and which Gospels and verses you read, to be honest it a bit all over the place.

(If you are to go with this, you are saved through faith in Christ, regardless of what sins you have committed)

Ephesians 2:1-10
1 You used to be dead because of your offenses and sins,
2 that you once practiced as you lived according to the ways of this present world and according to the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now active in those who are disobedient.
3 Indeed, all of us once behaved like them in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of our flesh and senses. By nature we were destined for wrath, just like everyone else.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of his great love for us
5 even when we were dead because of our offenses, made us alive together with the Messiah (by grace you have been saved),
6 raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavenly realm in the Messiah Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might display the limitless riches of his grace that comes to us through his kindness in the Messiah Jesus.
8 For by such grace you have been saved through faith. This does not come from you; it is the gift of God
9 and not the result of actions, to put a stop to all boasting.
10 For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.

Galatians 2:16
16 yet we know that a person is not justified by doing what the Law requires, but rather by the faithfulness of Jesus the Messiah. We, too, have believed in the Messiah Jesus so that we might be justified by the faithfulness of the Messiah and not by doing what the Law requires, for no human being will be justified by doing what the Law requires.

If you are to believe Jesus (depending on which gospel you read), then you can only get to the father through Jesus, this is from John, which in general is a bit of a dodgy Gospel in my opinion, and in the older ones, Mark and Matthews you can only do it by doing the will of God (Meaning follow the law).

God himself say that there is no one besides him that can do it, not even Jesus, which seems to fit with the older Gospels. But then again you have the trinity and then maybe it possible, if you believe in that.

Then you have James that seem to disagree with Paul and agrees with Jesus that it is only by doing God's will. While Paul say that it is only through the faith in Jesus that you are saved.

So take you pick

Thanks for sharing those different beliefs and scriptures. It drives home the point that the Bible says many different things, so it is no wonder that Christians do not agree on what gets to heaven, even among themselves. How one gets to heaven is what I call a slippery slope.

The reason I posted this is not to get 'other' people's beliefs about heaven but rather to find out 'what you think' God will do. Do you think that God will welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? Of course, this is a hypothetical question and it is based upon what you believe about God and heaven and how one would get into heaven if a God and a heaven exist.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Thanks, I know about all of that, but my question was more specific, and obviously the answer would be based upon a personal opinion, since nobody knows what will actually happen in the afterlife.

What I am really asking is whether everyone would have the 'same' afterlife experience immediately upon dying, regardless of how they had lived their lives on earth.

Abdul'baha tells us that it is a state of being, a state of consciousness. Like a rock and a human on the earth.

It is up to us as what we would choose for the next life, to be a rock or a human with all the limbs the ability of all senses to embrace all of creation.

The punishment is what we do not take with us in virtue, we will be aware of that neglect in a state only God can change us from. In this life we have a choice.

What a bounty we have been given, no animals, but us humans on this earth, have that given choice.

Regards Tony

 

[Nimos]

The reason I posted this is not to get 'other' people's beliefs about heaven but rather to find out 'what you think' God will do. Do you think that God will welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? Of course, this is a hypothetical question and it is based upon what you believe about God and heaven and how one would get into heaven if a God and a heaven exist.

Well in that case its a lot more interesting

As I would throw out the current religious ideas that I know of. So assuming God exist, I don't think a Heaven would exist, which is simply based on me not thinking a God would design us, in such way as we behave now, to then favor some over other. If anything were wrong with our behaviour in the eyes of God, it would mean that he is incompetent. Which I do not think such being would be, Now if God was evil, we would have far more suffering than we have, just as if he were good, then we have far to much suffering.
So if God is neither incompetent, evil or good. Then Heaven makes no sense and therefore I think a God would view us from his own perspective, not caring about our personal feelings about what we believe to be right or wrong. Which also mean that there would be no reason or need for a Heaven to send certain people, because God made us as he wanted us to be, and therefore he is not going to grant anyone anything.

If we go anywhere besides simply dying, I would assume it would be a state of limbo, where God might keep us until he need us for whatever. If Heaven were a place you could go and God was good, we would already be there. But again there is to much suffering. If God is evil, we would be living in hell and therefore no reason for a heaven.

So my best guess is that God would be a creator God doing what he wants with little regards to humans. But most likely a lot more interested in his creation (The Universe) as a whole.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

This question is for believers and nonbelievers.

If God exists/existed would God welcome everyone into heaven as soon as they died, regardless of the kind of life they had lived on earth? For example, would God welcome a mass murderer into heaven and treat him the same way as a person who had lived a noble life serving others and worshiping God?

If you think God would welcome everyone into heaven, why would God do that?

If you think God would not welcome everyone into heaven why wouldn’t God do that?

Because ideally God gave life to all, is all, in all, we wound die in God, and id think it makes more sense to continue being with god despite our physical state. No afterlife. One life.

Murderers, say child molesters, saints, Christians, atheist all were give life (if I believed, this is how I'd see it). All are blessed. All go to heaven. The idea is to stay in the blessing not see yourself deprived without it.

Actually, the church I go to, UU, express a view of god that sees universal salvation. That's more healthier than division.

 

[Trailblazer]

If God is omnipotent then God Can save absolutely anyone and everybody because God would know how to conquer and redeem the most sinister of beings. God would know when to apply grace and when to apply punishment. So those in need of punishment God would able provide every punishment deserved to rectify the soul.

I believe that God would know when to apply grace and when to apply punishment, but I do not believe that God conquers or redeems anyone. I believe we have to have to redeem ourselves. I am also not of the belief that punishment is for the purpose of rectifying souls but rather it is for the sake of justice for what is deserved, just as the reward of heaven is for based upon what is earned.

Why would eternal punishment last forever and ever. Either God can and won't, or can and will redeem all souls. I don't think it would be the case that God cannot do something. Even save the most sinister of beings.

Nothing would be beyond God's glory, and God's reach if God is God. The only thing God can not and will not do is commit evil.

I do not believe that there is eternal punishment forever and ever. I believe everyone has a chance of getting to heaven, but I do not think God redeems anyone. God might by his mercy accept someone into heaven, which is really nearness to Him, but that would be by God's choice, and not something anyone can count on.

If there is an all powerful Truth then forever punishment makes no sense. Do people really desire that all sinister souls get eternal punishment without ever able redeeming them?

I have been accused of believing that but I do not believe it.

Justice requires punishment. Mercy would be every bit as powerful as punishment. That's how I see omnipotence.

You just hit the nail on the head. that is exactly how I see it.
Mercy is the flip side of justice. Justice is earned, mercy is freely given.

Plus I myself have no desire to see eternally rotting souls. If they can be saved after a few aeons or however long it takes then by all means let every sinister being be conquered and redeemed. I would rather something good can become of all that eternal punishment then let sinister beings linger on in unimaginable hell as sinister beings.

I do not want them to linger there forever either, but if that is where they want to be then that is not really a punishment, it is just allowing them to be where they are comfortable. If hell is distance from God, which is what I believe, then I do not believe God forces anyone to draw near to Him and they will remain in hell by choice.

Is sinister so sinister that unimaginable hell couldn't rectify the situation? Is eternal hell without end necessary?

I do not think it is a matter of whether it is 'necessary'. but rather it is a matter of whether or not it exists. I do not think anyone has the answer to this question even though many believers think they know based upon their scriptures. I tend to think there is no hell that is without end but I don't really know.

I would rather cease them to exist after their punishment then have an existence that is totally separate from God just exist forever and ever.

That would be easier and preferable for them but what will happen in is not based upon what we want; it is based upon how God set it up.

A forever change of heart would be a glorious thing to see happen. Even the most sinister of beings. I imagine getting exactly what they deserve would do the job. Truth stronger than evil they would eventually break. Virtue over vice.

That is what I would want to see too, a chance for them to 'see the light' and change, after punishment and realization of what they had done evil in this life, which would also be the punishment.

By the way, it is good to see you again osgart, it's been a while now.
I hope you are safe and well. These are tough times.