Signs of the Times - What’s happening to our world?

[Muffled]

It can be seen right now if one knows their scriptures.

I believe I know the scriptures and you have not seen anything.

 

[Muffled]

Can you quote that scripture?

I suppose this is interpolated ie that a third of the waters means a third of the people:

Rev 8:11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe I have that and many other Christians also but the B man didn't. A Christ Spirit is not the same thing as a Christ body. It is the bodily return that has not yet been fulfilled.

And it never will be, Imo, because the body of Christ died on the cross, so it cannot return to earth.
You can keep waiting though, God won't stop you.

I believe it has been a long time but a long time is not forever.

It will be forever, Imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe I have that and many other Christians also but the B man didn't. A Christ Spirit is not the same thing as a Christ body. It is the bodily return that has not yet been fulfilled.

And it never will be, Imo, because the body of Christ died on the cross, so it cannot return to earth.
You can keep waiting though, God won't stop you.

I believe it has been a long time but a long time is not forever.

It will be forever, Imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe I know the scriptures and you have not seen anything.

You are free to believe anything you wish.

 

[Trailblazer]

I suppose this is interpolated ie that a third of the waters means a third of the people:

Rev 8:11 The name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters became wormwood, and many people died from the water, because it had been made bitter.

I do not interpret it that way. You can interpret it that way if you want to.

 

[loverofhumanity]

So what's new? It's kind of interesting that only "essential" work is being done. What does that say about what the rest of us do to make a living?

Hi CG. Hope you’re well and keeping safe. I think all work that puts bread and butter on the table is essential. But I can understand governments wanting to limit contact but in so doing must, I feel, provide income support otherwise how are people supposed to eat?

In Australia they’ve done this so that all will have food. This virus is like trying to plug two holes in a sinking ship with one hand. Limit the virus and economic damage soars. Open the economy and the virus will likely become a plague and decimate the economies anyway.

The world is between a rock and a hard place - damned if they do and damned if they don’t.

I personally see no permanent way out of this predicament unless we all unite collectively because by doing this we can free up $trillions normally spent on military budgets. By joining together also the cost of duplication can be minimised. . So instead of a hundred nations pouring money into a vaccine, a world body of scientists can be given the necessary funding thus eliminating duplication.


Without an effective vaccine both lives and economies will be in danger continually, with any more outbreaks causing further shutdowns of economIes. . But what if they can’t find an effective vaccine or it takes too long causing the world to go into a Great Depression?

I don’t know what a depression is like but I really don’t want to find out nor wish it on the world.

Baha’u’llah said that one day ...

The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men.”

The millennium conference was not out of any great need but we are in a desperate pickle now which I don’t believe we can solve nationally. At the very least I think this virus hast hastened the day that we must all come together like it or not. A matter of survival.


We handled the Tsunami then went back to our old ways but it was an Asian crisis. Then the world trade centre - again we returned to our old ways but neither was a universal calamity like this is.


I think this is the first universal calamity that humanity has experienced worldwide. At the moment the run has been on some supermarket items but not food or a run on banks. The system is or has collapsed as it’s built on national sovereignty yet the crisis is universal in nature and only can be remedied I believe by all humanity working together.

keep well friend.

 

[ManSinha]

I think this is the first universal calamity that humanity has experienced worldwide

Are you joking or plain unlettered?

Do you not remember the pandemic of 1918 merely a century ago - that wiped out nearly 25% of the then population?

What about the SARS epidemic from a few years ago

What about the world wars in 1914 and 1940? - ending with deployment of nuclear weapons?

I could legitimately call them "calamities"

You need to educate yourself better before throwing Baha'u'llah's meaningless quotes and "logic" at us - there have been reasoned answers as to why a world government is neither feasible nor desirable at this time

 

[Trailblazer]

a world government is neither feasible nor desirable at this time

@ loverofhumanity said:

Baha’u’llah said that one day ...

"The time must come when........."

The time has not come yet.

 

[ManSinha]

Baha’u’llah said that one day ...

"The time must come when........."

The time has not come yet.

@Trailblazer - this is the height of hypocrisy

I have seen you mock Christians who are waiting for Jesus to return

and you glibly defend your own erroneous predictions by saying the "time is not yet come"!!

Look in the mirror and see your own hypocrisy rather than have it pointed out to you and rubbed in your face

Is there a date on this "prediction"? if not then it is as good as the predictions I made to you previously

ergo

One day the current spread of corona virus will slow
one day the world economy will rebound
one day in coming several decades you and I will be dead

You have been repeatedly called out on the meaningless babble you dish out around here - and we shall keep doing that as long as you try and peddle your worthless faith-based wares under the guise of "sharing"

 

[TransmutingSoul]

You have been repeatedly called out on the meaningless babble you dish out around here - and we shall keep doing that as long as you try and peddle your worthless faith-based wares under the guise of "sharing"

Is this meaninglessness babble?

“... The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men.”

Personally, I see the world needs this to happen, I am sure many on RF would also like to see that happen.

Regards Tony

 

[ManSinha]

Is this meaninglessness babble?

“... The time must come when the imperative necessity for the holding of a vast, an all-embracing assemblage of men will be universally realized. The rulers and kings of the earth must needs attend it, and, participating in its deliberations, must consider such ways and means as will lay the foundations of the world’s Great Peace amongst men.”

Personally, I see the world needs this to happen, I am sure many on RF would also like to see that happen.

Yes it is meaningless babble - and here is one opinion why - It is merely a hope that has been expressed before - a hope with no concrete means to achieve it other to plead with world leaders which has repeatedly been shown by history to not work.

According to @Trailblazer - Baha'i's do not participate in the political process running for office

So all that can be hoped for (futilely) is to influence them from outside

Writing grandiose letters to governmental heads did nothing for Baha'u'llah and nothing for Abdul'baha

People in power do not tend to heed advice from those on the sidelines

Either the Baha'i's grow a spine and learn to participate in the political process and fight for the rights of the oppressed - or .......

Just as your random dishing out of grandiloquent phraseology does nothing - as does the mere mouthing of meaningless verses

I have singled out the two of you for IMHO trying to proselytize every chance you get by "Baha'u'llah said this" and "Baha'u'llah offered that" and "If only we followed Baha'u'llah's prescriptions" ....

I have also seen you @Tony Bristow-Stagg issue veiled threats in the name of Allah that I called you out on -

So yes - I see you as a devious person who hides behind flowery language and a facade of universal brotherhood to promote his own false agenda and faith

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Yes it is meaningless babble - and here is one opinion why - It is merely a hope that has been expressed before - a hope with no concrete means to achieve it other to plead with world leaders which has repeatedly been shown by history to not work.

Yet it is you denounce those that work towards that goal.

We encourage all to find our unity in our diversity by living virtue filled lives, in service to their family, friends and community all around the world.

I wish you naught but the best.

Regards Tony

 

[ManSinha]

Yet it is you denounce those that work towards that goal.

False allegation - I am merely denouncing you and your sly attempts at proselytizing around here - there are others actually doing stuff that promotes such unity - and you do not see me denouncing them.

Your generalizing in the above comment shows your intent and agenda - to run down any that might oppose your underhanded methods at promoting your tiny cult.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

False allegation - I am merely denouncing you and your sly attempts at proselytizing around here - there are others actually doing stuff that promotes such unity - and you do not see me denouncing them.

Your generalizing in the above comment shows your intent and agenda - to run down any that might oppose your underhanded methods at promoting your tiny cult.

Wheras I will never denounce you, nor your chosen path. I will happily work with you, no matter your view of me, or my faith, I will always see you as a friend.

The power that enabled me to be kind to all, is the power of the Faith offered, it is the power on an unprejudiced unity of purpose.

RegardsTony

 

[CG Didymus]

Wheras I will never denounce you, nor your chosen path. I will happily work with you, no matter your view of me, or my faith, I will always see you as a friend.

The power that enabled me to be kind to all, is the power of the Faith offered, it is the power on an unprejudiced unity of purpose.

RegardsTony

How are Sikhs working to bring peace and unity? How are Baha'is working with Sikhs to bring about unity? What are the basic beliefs of the Sikhs? Who was their founder and who did he claim to be?

I doubt if you know, but if you want to work with them, it would be nice if you learned a little of what they believe and what they are trying to accomplish.

But, if it's like how Baha'is "believe" in Christianity, I'd imagine it's going to be hard to work with them. Like when Baha'is continually tell Christians that Jesus died on the cross and is not coming back, Baha'is are pretty much denouncing the beliefs of those Christians. Baha'is don't believe like Methodists, like Catholics, like Anglicans, like Presbyterians and so on. Baha'is believe in "Baha'i Christianity". And if you believe in Sikhism at all, it will be a Baha'i version of Sikhism. Baha'is can't and don't accept the other religions' beliefs. Baha'is believe what their religion teaches and only accepts the things that the other religions have in common with them and reject the rest.

So be honest, talk about those things Baha'is have in common with Sikhs and the other religions and build from there. And again, be honest and admit that Baha'is do not believe in or accept all the doctrines and beliefs of the other religions. And Baha'is don't believe what the other religions believe about their founders and/or prophets. And, that Baha'is don't necessarily agree with what the other religions say about who and what God is and what his plans for the world are.

But, Baha'is do believe it is time to put religious differences aside and work towards peace and unity between the different religions. Can Baha'is put their own beliefs aside? Those beliefs that go contrary to the beliefs of the other religions? Those beliefs that imply that Baha'is are better because they have the newest message from God. Can they put their beliefs that they are the newest religions aside when says that they have the newest... that their prophet claims to be the Mahdi?

If you can't it's going to be hard to work with the people in the other religions. And it will give the appearance that Baha'is are denouncing the beliefs of the other religions by not accepting who their prophet says he is. And, if you don't know about the beliefs of the other religions, and you don't know the claims of the prophets of those other religions, then you can't say you are not "unprejudiced". To those people in the other religions again, it will seem like you are prejudiced against them. You don't know them. You don't know about their Scriptures, but Baha'is will critic their religion... as if they do know. But Baha'i don't know and when they do know, like with Christianity, they are quick to point out how wrong the Christians are. Yet, Baha'i want to be their friends and work towards peace with them? No, learn to be a friend. A friend that has different beliefs but can accept the beliefs of others without judging them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How are Sikhs working to bring peace and unity? How are Baha'is working with Sikhs to bring about unity? What are the basic beliefs of the Sikhs? Who was their founder and who did he claim to be?

I doubt if you know, but if you want to work with them, it would be nice if you learned a little of what they believe and what they are trying to accomplish.

Over the years I have come across sikh conversations on Baha'i Forums, this is one from about 4 years ago. A former sikh now posts as a Baha'i, I see the teachings are complimentary, so for a sikh to denounce the teachings of Baha'u'llah, that would be most likely reflect upon their own teachings.

Spoiler

Sikh and Baha'i: Is it possible?

This link may help Guru Nanak and Miracles

Regards Tony

 

[loverofhumanity]

Are you joking or plain unlettered?

Do you not remember the pandemic of 1918 merely a century ago - that wiped out nearly 25% of the then population?

What about the SARS epidemic from a few years ago

What about the world wars in 1914 and 1940? - ending with deployment of nuclear weapons?

I could legitimately call them "calamities"

You need to educate yourself better before throwing Baha'u'llah's meaningless quotes and "logic" at us - there have been reasoned answers as to why a world government is neither feasible nor desirable at this time

Had the world taken heed of Baha’u’llah’s call to unite both world wars I believe would never had occurred and any universal calamities would be resolved much quicker unitedly than as individual nations. The WTO even mentioned this point the other day that working together was much more preferable than trying to solve the crisis nation by nation.

Nature works together in unity and harmony and sustains humanity. The various organs of the human body work together as one unitedly to give health and well being to the human being so it is only common sense that a world united, working together collectively will function much, much better than a disjointed body. This is common sense and indisputable. Even ants and bees work together but we humans resist.

By universal calamity I mainly mean that no country is exempt. In the wars countries could be ‘neutral’ and sars did not shut down the entire world but my point is that had the world heeded His call to unite I believe humanity would never have had any world wars as we would have been one world community.

 

[ManSinha]

Had the world taken heed of Baha’u’llah’s call to unite both world wars I believe would never had occurred and any universal calamities would be resolved much quicker unitedly than as individual nations. The WTO even mentioned this point the other day that working together was much more preferable than trying to solve the crisis nation by nation.

And there you go - proselytizing again with Baha’u’llah said etc

You are indeed ill informed - the RigVeda was composed around 3500 years ago - much before Baha'u'llah was a gleam in his father's eye
The final paragraph states the same thing

1. THOU, mighty Agni, gatherest up all that is precious for thy friend.
Bring us all treasures as thou art enkindled in libation's place
2. Assemble, speak together: let your minds be all of one accord,
As ancient Gods unanimous sit down to their appointed share.
3. The place is common, common the assembly, common the mind, so be their thought united.
A common purpose do I lay before you, and worship with your general oblation.
4. One and the same be your resolve, and be your minds of one accord.
United be the thoughts of all that all may happily agree.

This was composed around the 17th century

Now I can say that if humanity had listened to the words of the Vedas the calamities you mention could have been avoided - Baha'u'llah not needed / wanted

In fact @loverofhumanity - I have said this to others before - as far as I am concerned - there is nothing about the message you tout that is original - it is all recycled from what is presented before and in other cultures

You need to open your eyes before you go proclaiming Baha'u'llah as the answer to the world's problems - other than the IMO foolish approach of writing letters laden with veiled curses and threats to the world leaders - who probably tossed those letters in the trash - what is the actual plan to make a difference and show me one place where it has succeeded.

You cannot take the natural course of world events which would happen anyway and then say "Oh it is happening because the B person predicted it and said it would be so" - that is as asinine IMO as those that tout Daniel's "prophecies" came true when most agree they were composed at the same time or after the fact.

I can show you examples where this has been done. For example it is a known fact that every empire falls - every single one - none has lasted - not the mighty Romans nor the Guptas in India to the British of whom it was said that the sun never sets on the British empire - some last decades - others centuries but every single empire in the history of humankind has fallen eventually - as some say America is on the decline after decades of dominating the world stage. For Baha'u'llah to threaten world leaders that their empires would "fall" is disingenuous and a hollow claim

It is like me claiming that both you and I will be dead several decades from now - it is the natural truth and means absolutely nothing - "predicting" that does not make me a prophet - so @loverofhumanity - go peddle your nonsense elsewhere.

 

[CG Didymus]

Baha'is do believe it is time to put religious differences aside and work towards peace and unity between the different religions. Can Baha'is put their own beliefs aside? Those beliefs that go contrary to the beliefs of the other religions? Those beliefs that imply that Baha'is are better because they have the newest message from God.

I see the teachings are complimentary, so for a sikh to denounce the teachings of Baha'u'llah, that would be most likely reflect upon their own teachings.

I have said this to others before - as far as I am concerned - there is nothing about the message you tout that is original - it is all recycled from what is presented before and in other cultures

Sikhism believes that it is immoral to show distinction or rank because of race, class, or gender. Universality and equality are among the most important pillars of the Sikh faith.​

So... Baha'is is ManSinha correct in saying there is nothing "original" in the Baha'i writings? He's quoted from the RigVeda. And now, I'm quoting from a link about Sikh beliefs. That's plagiarism. Does Baha'u'llah acknowledge that the unity between all people is not his original idea?

False allegation - I am merely denouncing you and your sly attempts at proselytizing around here

Tony, he is not "denouncing" Baha'u'llah's teachings. He is denouncing how Baha'is, in his opinion, are using these threads to proselytize. And I agree, but I don't mind it. Because the Baha'i threads gives us something to debate about. The Baha'i threads are my favorite threads here on the forum. And they are bringing people from the other religions together... but for the wrong reasons. To argue, not to work together to bring peace and unity. And who's fault is that? The people in the other religions? Or, the Baha'is? In your next post you say...

I will happily work with you

Then, do it. Work with the Hindus and Sikhs... and Christians, and the others. You think you've got the message the world needs, then don't just talk about, or tell of how some other Baha'is are doing it, or how the UHJ has written about it. You do it. Right here. You bring unity. You're the one that has the plan and the message. Show us the way.