Jeremiah Ames
Well-Known Member
I’m reading Genesis 2 & 3 again after many times.
I have pretty much purged religion and religions doctrine from my mind, so each time I read it, it gets better and I understand more of what is being said.
I want to talk about the fruit problem.
Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Ok, that’s not so bad. We are given free choice to eat from various trees, and we are warned that we should not eat from a particular tree because it may be harmful to us.
It’s like my mother saying to me when I’m young: “You may play anywhere you want in our front yard, but DO NOT play on the highway, for on that day you shalt surely get run over by a car and die.”
Playing in the highway is NOT a sin, just something that has a bad consequence for me, so a loving mother will say not to do it.
Wouldn’t a loving God just be looking after his child in the same way?
Where does the religion get sin and punishment from this simple statement?
Now, moving to Genesis 3 you find that the man actually ate from this tree, and as a result God told him what would be the results of his choice. Notice, he doesn’t die. But other consequences happen:
Genesis 3:17-19: “cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread”
This is like my mother coming to me in the hospital after I disobeyed her and played in the street, and saying: “Well, now you’re going to be stuck in that wheel chair the rest of your life, and you will have various hardships”
There is NO condemnation. There is no eternal punishment because I played in the street. More likely, my mother is sad that I did not obey her, because she wanted my best, but I made my free choice and now she still loves me just as much as before, and has surely NOT piled additional punishment on me.
This is my question (please use the rules below to answer)
Why is it that religion can turn a beautiful story of love and care into something so, ummm, religious and ugly? (Eternal punishment because of sin is ugly, and wrong)
Please. I don’t need you to quote Paul please. If you want to answer, only use words from the entire Old Testament and words from Jesus.
I am familiar with Romans 5 and believe it completely, and do not need you to quote it. Nothing Paul says changes my perception. Paul can be so easily misunderstood since he had to speak to children as well as adults, and so many like to interpret everything as if they were still children.
1 Corinthians 13:9-12 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
By the way, I corrected my mistake. Religious concepts still creep in.
I have pretty much purged religion and religions doctrine from my mind, so each time I read it, it gets better and I understand more of what is being said.
I want to talk about the fruit problem.
Genesis 2:16-17 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
Ok, that’s not so bad. We are given free choice to eat from various trees, and we are warned that we should not eat from a particular tree because it may be harmful to us.
It’s like my mother saying to me when I’m young: “You may play anywhere you want in our front yard, but DO NOT play on the highway, for on that day you shalt surely get run over by a car and die.”
Playing in the highway is NOT a sin, just something that has a bad consequence for me, so a loving mother will say not to do it.
Wouldn’t a loving God just be looking after his child in the same way?
Where does the religion get sin and punishment from this simple statement?
Now, moving to Genesis 3 you find that the man actually ate from this tree, and as a result God told him what would be the results of his choice. Notice, he doesn’t die. But other consequences happen:
Genesis 3:17-19: “cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread”
This is like my mother coming to me in the hospital after I disobeyed her and played in the street, and saying: “Well, now you’re going to be stuck in that wheel chair the rest of your life, and you will have various hardships”
There is NO condemnation. There is no eternal punishment because I played in the street. More likely, my mother is sad that I did not obey her, because she wanted my best, but I made my free choice and now she still loves me just as much as before, and has surely NOT piled additional punishment on me.
This is my question (please use the rules below to answer)
Why is it that religion can turn a beautiful story of love and care into something so, ummm, religious and ugly? (Eternal punishment because of sin is ugly, and wrong)
Please. I don’t need you to quote Paul please. If you want to answer, only use words from the entire Old Testament and words from Jesus.
I am familiar with Romans 5 and believe it completely, and do not need you to quote it. Nothing Paul says changes my perception. Paul can be so easily misunderstood since he had to speak to children as well as adults, and so many like to interpret everything as if they were still children.
1 Corinthians 13:9-12 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
By the way, I corrected my mistake. Religious concepts still creep in.
Last edited by a moderator: