Why Christian Faith is the Final Word of God?

[InvestigateTruth]

Christians believe before Jesus, there came many prophets as described in the Bible.

What happened that God decided not to send another Prophet after Jesus in Chriatians view?

What did specifically happen once Jesus appeared that God stoped speaking to humanity?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

While not specifically Christian, I do utilize more mystical interpretations of Christian mythology for spiritual inspiration, and one of those is Christ's crucifixion and resurrection.

The event is, in Christianity, the ultimate Sacrifice in atonement for separation from God. There is no need for another prophet or messiah, because all was fulfilled by Christ.

What I think is sorely missing in mainstream Christianity is identity with Christ. Putting Christ on a pedestal and worshipped removes the individual from the relationship with "God" (our reflection of Self in the Universe as a whole).

 

[Samael_Khan]

Christians believe before Jesus, there came many prophets as described in the Bible.

What happened that God decided not to send another Prophet after Jesus in Chriatians view?

What did specifically happen once Jesus appeared that God stoped speaking to humanity?

So the assumptions here are wrong.

Christians do believe that there were prophets after Jesus. There were prophets after Jesus death or at least people who had the gift of prophecy:

What Does Scripture Teach About the Office of Prophet and Gift of Prophecy?

The apostles had the gift of prophecy and so did other Christians. The book of Revelation is the last book of the bible and is a prophecy given to the apostle John.

So God didn't stop speaking to humanity after Jesus died according to Christianity.

The important point is that people who claimed to be prophets after Jesus can't contradict the teachings of Christianity as laid out in the New Testament, can't claim to be Jesus, and can't add to the book of Revelation, because those would identify them as false prophets.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Christians believe before Jesus, there came many prophets as described in the Bible.

What happened that God decided not to send another Prophet after Jesus in Chriatians view?

What did specifically happen once Jesus appeared that God stoped speaking to humanity?

Just an excerpt from the article I linked:

"Prophetic ministry in the early church was widespread and diverse. A band of prophets traveled from Jerusalem to Antioch, and one of them, Agabus, “stood up and through the Spirit predicted that a severe famine would spread over the entire Roman world” (Acts 11:28). Prophets were active in the church at Antioch (Acts 13:1), Tyre (Acts 21:4), and Caesarea, where the four daughters of Philip prophesied (Acts 21:8–9). Prophecy, one of the gifts of the Spirit designed for edifying the body of Christ, was also utilized in the churches at Rome (Rom. 12:6), Corinth (1 Cor. 12:7–11; 14:1–40), Ephesus (Eph. 2:20; 4:11; see also Acts 19:1–7; 1 Tim. 1:18), and Thessalonica (1 Thess. 5:19–22)."

 

[Windwalker]

Christians believe before Jesus, there came many prophets as described in the Bible.

What happened that God decided not to send another Prophet after Jesus in Chriatians view?

What did specifically happen once Jesus appeared that God stoped speaking to humanity?

I think the first thing you have to do is define what a prophet is and does. If you start by saying only these prominent figures you have in the Bible were the only prophets, you'd be wrong.

There was recognized by the Apostle Paul in writing to the Church in Corinth in 53 AD, 30 years after Jesus died that prophecy was one of the gifts of the Spirit given to members of the Christian body. So it's clearly not "God sent Moses, then Jesus, that Mohammed, and then Bahaullah as the latest prophet. That's not how it worked, not even in the Old Testament times. So imaging it's only these book-worthy dudes, would be a mistake. It is a mythology.

But from a Christian perspective, Christians do not view Jesus as a prophet. They view him as the Son of God, the Messiah. And the majority of Christians view that to mean is is equal to God in his eternal essence. That is mainline Christian theology.

So with that in mind, that they do not see him as just another of the prophets, many far and wide as they were back then (not one every 1000 years). So they cannot recognize some simple prophet has greater importance and significance than that. But they do not say there are no prophets after Jesus, since there were prophets in the early church, as Paul referenced.

I think the problem lays in the perspective of just what the significance of a prophet is to a Christian. They don't hold the same godlike, holy references as the Son of God does to them. Only Muslims and their cousins the Baha'i do that, where to speak ill of them is tantamount to blasphemy against God.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

So the assumptions here are wrong.

Christians do believe that there were prophets after Jesus. There were prophets after Jesus death or at least people who had the gift of prophecy:

What Does Scripture Teach About the Office of Prophet and Gift of Prophecy?

The apostles had the gift of prophecy and so did other Christians. The book of Revelation is the last book of the bible and is a prophecy given to the apostle John.

So God didn't stop speaking to humanity after Jesus died according to Christianity.

The important point is that people who claimed to be prophets after Jesus can't contradict the teachings of Christianity as laid out in the New Testament, can't claim to be Jesus, and can't add to the book of Revelation, because those would identify them as false prophets.

Thank you.
Your explanation is good, but it raises another question.
When Moses came, He brought many laws as described in Jewish bible. But, Gospels have changed or even abrogated some of those laws, such as law of divorce and Sabath. It seems to the Jews, the Christian Bible contradict Laws of Moses. If God decided to abrogate or change Laws of Moses, why can He not change or abrogate some of the teachings of Jesus?
I mean, if after Jewish Bible, a newer Bible was sent, why after Gospels, no new Holy Book can be sent from God?

Also, if the ultimate sacrifice is made by Christ, why we still see most of the people being far from God?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I think the first thing you have to do is define what a prophet is and does. If you start by saying only these prominent figures you have in the Bible were the only prophets, you'd be wrong.

There was recognized by the Apostle Paul in writing to the Church in Corinth in 53 AD, 30 years after Jesus died that prophecy was one of the gifts of the Spirit given to members of the Christian body. So it's clearly not "God sent Moses, then Jesus, that Mohammed, and then Bahaullah as the latest prophet. That's not how it worked, not even in the Old Testament times. So imaging it's only these book-worthy dudes, would be a mistake. It is a mythology.

But from a Christian perspective, Christians do not view Jesus as a prophet. They view him as the Son of God, the Messiah. And the majority of Christians view that to mean is is equal to God in his eternal essence. That is mainline Christian theology.

So with that in mind, that they do not see him as just another of the prophets, many far and wide as they were back then (not one every 1000 years). So they cannot recognize some simple prophet has greater importance and significance than that. But they do not say there are no prophets after Jesus, since there were prophets in the early church, as Paul referenced.

I think the problem lays in the perspective of just what the significance of a prophet is to a Christian. They don't hold the same godlike, holy references as the Son of God does to them. Only Muslims and their cousins the Baha'i do that, where to speak ill of them is tantamount to blasphemy against God.

Ok, I mean prophets like Noah and Abraham who brought a covenant from God.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Thank you.
Your explanation is good, but it raises another question.
When Moses came, He brought many laws as described in Jewish bible. But, Gospels have changed or even abrogated some of those laws, such as law of divorce and Sabath. It seems to the Jews, the Christian Bible contradict Laws of Moses. If God decided to abrogate or change Laws of Moses, why can He not change or abrogate some of the teachings of Jesus?
I mean, if after Jewish Bible, a newer Bible was sent, why after Gospels, no new Holy Book can be sent from God?

Also, if the ultimate sacrifice is made by Christ, why we still see most of the people being far from God?

Well, the book of Jeremiah does predict that a new covenant will be made with God's people:

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:31-35 - New International Version

Therefore a new law would be made. So the old testament actually predicts that the old laws will possibly be abrogated.

I don't know how a Jew would interpret those verses, but they certainly are awaiting a messiah, and I don't know if they believe he will bring a new law.

The book of Revelation seals the Bible (Revelation 22: 18-19). So that is the last holy book to Christians. But I think it is more that a New Holy book shouldn't contradict the New testament. So if a new "prophet" comes along and says that Jesus didn't die for the sins of the world and was resurrected then that book and prophet are immediately rejected.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Ok, I mean prophets like Noah and Abraham who brought a covenant from God.

The Book of Revelation or the other books don't predict that a new covenant will be made with God's people but the Old Testament did predict such a thing. The Book of Revelation pretty much lays out what will happen from the last apostle to the end of time and gives no leeway for a New Covenant.

 

[Windwalker]

Ok, I mean prophets like Noah and Abraham who brought a covenant from God.

So the question is then, why do Christians believe Christ is the final covenant, which they do. That view that Christ is the final covenant, is strewn throughout the writings of the NT authors. For starters, Jesus is quoted as saying about his death to come, "this cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood".

But you can see that the Apostle Paul considered the New Covenant to replace the old one. There is no view by any Christian that this New Covenant brought by Christ, is to be replaced by another new one in the future, as they viewed Jesus' sacrifice as perfect and complete.

"But now Jesus has obtained a superior ministry, since the covenant that he mediates is also better and is enacted on better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion to look for a second. For he finds fault with them when he says: "Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt. For they did not continue in my covenant, and so I showed no concern for them, declares the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,' for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more." In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

— Hebrews 8:6–13
​

While Christians hopefully would remain open to new understandings of Christ's teachings and laws he gave them, to love each other with the same love he loved the world, they do not view what Christ brought them to be imperfect and needing future updated messengers. That Christians don't grow, and aren't open to change is not a failing of the covenant, needing some new messiah, it's a failing of their faith. God's work is already done.

In the words of G.K. Chesterton, Christianity has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and not tried.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Christians believe before Jesus, there came many prophets as described in the Bible.

What happened that God decided not to send another Prophet after Jesus in Chriatians view?

What did specifically happen once Jesus appeared that God stoped speaking to humanity?

It's a convience to explain away the silence.

See? God stopped talking after that.

That standard of believability seems to be enough for some.

 

[Samael_Khan]

It's a convience to explain away the silence.

See? God stopped talking after that.

That standard of believability seems to be enough for some.

But we just explained that Christians do not believe that God stopped talking after Jesus.

Many groups today actually believe that the gift of prophecy still happens. And the Bible speaks about God talking to people after Jesus death.

In fact the idea that God still speaks to Christians exploded after the reformation. It is the reason why many Christians claim to be prophets after that and many cults started to form.

 

[Audie]

Ok, I mean prophets like Noah and Abraham who brought a covenant from God.

Ah, imaginary people.

 

[Terry Sampson]

What happened that God decided not to send another Prophet after Jesus in Chriatians view? What did specifically happen once Jesus appeared that God stoped speaking to humanity?

the assumptions here are wrong

Indeed they are.

and was resurrected

Israel, I think you meant "and was not resurrected".

Well, the book of Jeremiah does predict that a new covenant will be made with God's people:

Read Jeremiah again.

• 31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt,

Who does the LORD say that He will make a new covenant with? With the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
Who did the LORD personally bring out of Egypt? The house of Israel and the house of Judah.

I am not in or of the house of Israel or the house of Judah. Jesus of Nazareth was. Are you?

• “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

What is "new" about the new covenant that He intends to make with the house of Israel and the house of Judah? That the LORD will put His law in each and write it on their hearts, and that they will not have to teach the law to each other or remind each other that the LORD is their God, because each--from the least to the greatest--will know it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And that their iniquity will be forgiven and their past sins will be forgotten.

If that's a covenant offered to me, it's not one I'm going to enjoy in this world. I'm ill-prepared and unable to claim that I am a walking, talking, breathing Torah-bearer in this world. Besides, I'm not a Jew, by blood or by conversion. So, what do I, a Gentile, get? The harvest gleaning. And that is what Jesus is. an unwanted leftover. There is no other worth chasing after.

The reason for this thread, posted by a Baha'i, is to find some Christian who can and will explain to InvestigateTruth why, if Christianity says that it replaced Judaism, Baha'i can't say that it replaces Islam (in another thread) AND Christianity.
The incorrect assumption is that Christianity replaced/replaces Judaism. It doesn't. If someone thinks it does, they're going to have to do some fancy dancing to show that replacements stopped with Christianity. Me? I don't believe it does. IMO, during his life on earth, Jesus was a "Reviver" of Judaism, but not a "Replacer". After his death and resurrection, he proclaimed a Second and New Covenant.

 

[Darkforbid]

Ah, imaginary people.

Any proof of that

 

[Samael_Khan]

Israel, I think you meant "and was not resurrected".

Thanks for the correction.

Read Jeremiah again.

• 31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt,

Who does the LORD say that He will make a new covenant with? With the house of Israel and the house of Judah.
Who did the LORD personally bring out of Egypt? The house of Israel and the house of Judah.

I am not in or of the house of Israel or the house of Judah. Jesus of Nazareth was. Are you?

• “But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord, “I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.”

What is "new" about the new covenant that He intends to make with the house of Israel and the house of Judah? That the LORD will put His law in each and write it on their hearts, and that they will not have to teach the law to each other or remind each other that the LORD is their God, because each--from the least to the greatest--will know it 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. And that their iniquity will be forgiven and their past sins will be forgotten.

If that's a covenant offered to me, it's not one I'm going to enjoy in this world. I'm ill-prepared and unable to claim that I am a walking, talking, breathing Torah-bearer in this world. Besides, I'm not a Jew, by blood or by conversion. So, what do I, a Gentile, get? The harvest gleaning. And that is what Jesus is. an unwanted leftover. There is no other worth chasing after.

The reason for this thread, posted by a Baha'i, is to find some Christian who can and will explain to InvestigateTruth why, if Christianity says that it replaced Judaism, Baha'i can't say that it replaces Islam (in another thread) AND Christianity.
The incorrect assumption is that Christianity replaced/replaces Judaism. It doesn't. If someone thinks it does, they're going to have to do some fancy dancing to show that replacements stopped with Christianity. Me? I don't believe it does. IMO, during his life on earth, Jesus was a "Reviver" of Judaism, but not a "Replacer". After his death and resurrection, he proclaimed a Second and New Covenant.

I agree that God made a new covenant with the house of Israel and Judah, which is why the first Christians were Jews. As with Israel under the Mosaic law as well, gentiles can become a part of Israel. Which is why Romans speaks about the gentiles being grafted into Israel:

What does it mean that the church has been grafted in Israel’s place? | GotQuestions.org

So gentiles become a part of Israel, under Israels new law much like proselytes were in the mosaic law:

Exodus 12:48-49
"But if a stranger sojourns with you, and celebrates the Passover to the LORD, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near to celebrate it; and he shall be like a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person may eat of it. "The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you."

Isaiah 56:3-8
Let not the foreigner who has joined himself to the LORD say, "The LORD will surely separate me from His people " Nor let the eunuch say, "Behold, I am a dry tree." For thus says the LORD, "To the eunuchs who keep My sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, To them I will give in My house and within My walls a memorial, And a name better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name which will not be cut off.
"Also the foreigners who join themselves to the LORD, To minister to Him, and to love the name of the LORD, To be His servants, every one who keeps from profaning the sabbath And holds fast My covenant; Even those I will bring to My holy mountain And make them joyful in My house of prayer Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar; For My house will be called a house of prayer for all the peoples." The Lord GOD, who gathers the dispersed of Israel, declares, "Yet others I will gather to them, to those already gathered."

In the link above they speak about something called replacement theology, that Christianity replaces Judaism. It is an interesting topic, since Christians didn't prevent Jews from sticking to Judaism. But the problem with that is if Jesus is the one sacrifice for all time, then some laws would have to be ignored, such as the sacrifices in Leviticus. I think that Christianity is just the natural conclusion of Judaism. So the principles of the law then just get transferred to the heart.

 

[Trailblazer]

So God didn't stop speaking to humanity after Jesus died according to Christianity.

From all I have ever heard from Christians they believe that God speaks to them through the Holy Spirit, so they do not believe God stopped speaking. But they believe that God only speaks to them, so everyone else is left out in the cold. Some God.

The important point is that people who claimed to be prophets after Jesus can't contradict the teachings of Christianity as laid out in the New Testament, can't claim to be Jesus, and can't add to the book of Revelation, because those would identify them as false prophets.

The salient problem is that what the Church teaches are doctrines they came up with based upon their interpretation of the New Testament, but that is not what was "laid out" in the New Testament. Jesus never claimed that there was original sin and Jesus never claimed to be God, for example. I could go on and on, but I don't want to make myself sick.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, the book of Jeremiah does predict that a new covenant will be made with God's people:

Bible Gateway passage: Jeremiah 31:31-35 - New International Version

Therefore a new law would be made. So the old testament actually predicts that the old laws will possibly be abrogated.

Jesus said that He had many things to say, but we could not bear them back in His day. Jesus predicted that the Spirit of truth would come to guide us to all truth. That certainly indicates that God would have more to say in the future.

John 16:12-13 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

 

[Trailblazer]

In fact the idea that God still speaks to Christians exploded after the reformation.

Why would God only speak to Christians?
Sorry, but I consider this the epitome of arrogance.

 

[Trailblazer]

God's work is already done.

Oh I see, God has retired because God does not like working anymore.