Absolute Certainty

[Polymath257]

Why?

In answer to why I'm not 100% convinced I exist:

1. I'm not sure what it means to exist
2. I'm not sure 'I' am a single entity
3. Maybe I am a figment in the dream of another

 

[Polymath257]

How can you be so certain?
A person can be absolutely certain of beliefs but that does not guarantee they are right about them.

I see. I t is possible to have absolute certainty and be wrong? Doesn't that contradict the concept of certainty?

 

[exchemist]

This is a discussion about Absolute Certainty.

First I will give what I see are Absolute Certainty.

100% Certain of God - Unknowable.
100% God sends Messengers.
100% Certain those Messengers are all we can know of God.
100% Certain that if you believe in one of those Messengers, one has found a source of Truth.
100% Certain that we are in true form, we are Spirit.
100% Certain that creation is a Relative Certainty.
100% Certain that all people have this knowledge within.
100% Certain, that we will mess up that Certainty.

Well that is a good start.

What about you, what are your Absolute Certainties?

Do your Certainties find any agreement in Mine?

Do you think we can have Absolute Certainty?

Regards Tony

I am certain I exist and I am certain that one day I shall die. All else is varying shades of grey.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

This is a discussion about Absolute Certainty.

First I will give what I see are Absolute Certainty.

100% Certain of God - Unknowable.
100% God sends Messengers.
100% Certain those Messengers are all we can know of God.
100% Certain that if you believe in one of those Messengers, one has found a source of Truth.
100% Certain that we are in true form, we are Spirit.
100% Certain that creation is a Relative Certainty.
100% Certain that all people have this knowledge within.
100% Certain, that we will mess up that Certainty.

Well that is a good start.

What about you, what are your Absolute Certainties?

Do your Certainties find any agreement in Mine?

Do you think we can have Absolute Certainty?

Regards Tony

I am 100% certain, that the only 100% certatude? Is in Mathematics.

Math is the sole Human Endeavor, where Proof is both meaningful and accurate to 100%.

Not ironically? Math is also only and ever exists within our collective heads-- oh, sure, you can write it out, but without a Key to the Symbols? What is written out is essentially meaningless.

So. Proof and 100% is only and ever for Maths. Yaaay Maths!

Everything else? Is subject to at least a small level of uncertainty. As the famous philosopher quipped? Cogito Ergo Sum. I think, therefore I am.

Of course... the skeptic has to ask: how certain are you that you are actually thinking? And not just a computer sim, being run on a Galactic Sized Quantum Computer? And are simply following your programming, which is only a simulation of thinking?

In truth, even Descartes could not be 100% sure-- he could be fairly sure, though.

As the Russian Space Program Engineers often observed?

Good Enough For Service. (and hopefully won't kill too many cosmonauts....)

Descartes quote is Good Enough For Service.

Everything else, is relative to the individual.

Which is, not ironically, why Einstein's Theory Of Relativity was such a double entendre...

Am I 100% sure of any of this? Well.... relatively speaking? No.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I am 100% certain, that the only 100% certatude? Is in Mathematics.

Math is the sole Human Endeavor, where Proof is both meaningful and accurate to 100%.

Not ironically? Math is also only and ever exists within our collective heads-- oh, sure, you can write it out, but without a Key to the Symbols? What is written out is essentially meaningless.

So. Proof and 100% is only and ever for Maths. Yaaay Maths!

Everything else? Is subject to at least a small level of uncertainty. As the famous philosopher quipped? Cogito Ergo Sum. I think, therefore I am.

Of course... the skeptic has to ask: how certain are you that you are actually thinking? And not just a computer sim, being run on a Galactic Sized Quantum Computer? And are simply following your programming, which is only a simulation of thinking?

In truth, even Descartes could not be 100% sure-- he could be fairly sure, though.

As the Russian Space Program Engineers often observed?

Good Enough For Service. (and hopefully won't kill too many cosmonauts....)

Descartes quote is Good Enough For Service.

Everything else, is relative to the individual.

Which is, not ironically, why Einstein's Theory Of Relativity was such a double entendre...

Am I 100% sure of any of this? Well.... relatively speaking? No.

Maths is quite amazing, I an at awe of those that use mathematics with great skill.

But how great are also the Word which has built Language, as with this we an also share Maths.

It has been said that it was knitting the letters B & E together as to why we are here, the command of 'Be' and it is. Explaining that a bit further, the imperative “Be” in the original Arabic, is the word “kun”, consisting of the two letters “káf” and “nún”. In the past this word has been used in the Qur’án as God’s bidding calling creation into being.

Maths should be able to calculate that moment.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Most people love harmony and unity. But people who don't agree and indicate that agreement is impossible disturb harmony and unity. In olden times those people were killed or exiled.

I am not so sure that most people live harmony and unity. I think some people like to argue in order to prove they are right. That is ego. I used to be that way when I first came to forums and along time after that but eventually I changed and now I do not want to argue anymore because I have no need to prove I am right and others are wrong.

Everyone has a right to their own opinions and beliefs. I have strong negative opinions about some of those but I try to hold them in check most of the time unless it is really relevant to a post I am answering.

I have certain beliefs and opinions that are not going to change at my age.
My beliefs would only change if someone could prove Baha'u'llah was a false prophet. Saying so is not proof.

 

[Trailblazer]

Semantics, semantics, semantics. It's all pretty much all the same..

There is a difference between believing and declaring. Believing is personal but declaring is saying I am right and you are wrong.
A person who believes does not necessarily declare that their belief is the belief for everyone.

 

[Trailblazer]

Why? Is there something that you would not like to admit in public? Open up, we are all friends here.

No, I am not ashamed of anything I think or believe. I just exposed my opinions about sex and homosexuality on another forum and I will probably get guff back, but I have strong beliefs and opinions and I did not insult anyone, so I don't care what they think. I just gave them something to think about, they can take it or leave it. That is what these forums are all about. We can be polite and still express opinions.

I can explain why I believe in Baha'u'llah, it is because of *what I consider* evidence that my belief is the truth, but what I cannot explain is why I see it as evidence whereas most people do not see it that way. I think it is probably because I was guided by God but also because I never had any confirmation bias before I became a Baha'i, since I was not raised in any religion. Thus I was a blank slate and I almost immediately recognized the Baha'i Faith as the truth. Now, 49 years later, I still believe and have true faith, something I did not have in years past.

.
You are but a bundle of contradiction. Allah allows suffering, has wrath, wants you to love him before he can give his love to you. You accept that it is absolutely selfish. Things do not seem right. But you still worship this Allah who does all these things. For this reason alone I do not believe that there can be this kind of Allah.

I said that things do not seem right, but I do not consider that selfish. Allah cannot be selfish because Allah is not a human. No, to be honest, I do not worship Allah, I just try to follow His teachings and laws to the best of my ability. I fully understand how you feel about Allah. I have understood atheists for years since I have posted to so many atheists for about six years and I listen and try to understand.

I only believe in God because of Baha'u'llah, not because I like God or because am *getting anything* for myself. I do not need anything from God like love and forgiveness the way Christians do. I just try to do what I consider the *right thing* even if I do not like it. I can understand why you think I am contradictory, that is because I am still trying to work this out in my mind. Feelings often conflict with thoughts.

 

[Trailblazer]

In answer to why I'm not 100% convinced I exist:

1. I'm not sure what it means to exist

I know I exist because I have a body and a soul. That is what it means to exist from my perspective.

I am aware of both my body and my soul and that they work together, but I am also aware that my soul is a separate entity. It is the strangest thing. My soul transcends space and time, so I can be where my body is not... I can be standing in front of my computer at work at the same time I am standing in front of this laptop.

 

[Trailblazer]

I see. I t is possible to have absolute certainty and be wrong? Doesn't that contradict the concept of certainty?

No, because what we are certain of could be wrong.

I am certain I am right about my beliefs. I am certain that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be, a Messenger of God, and everything else follows from that belief.

I am certain that Christians are right about many things but dead wrong about other things, yet they are certain they are right about all their beliefs.

Certainty has nothing to do with evidence, although evidence can lead to certainty. For me, that is what happened. Had you asked me about seven years ago if I was certain of my beliefs, I would have said I was 80 or 90% certain, but now I am 100% certain. The reason I am 100% certain now is because of seven years on forums posting to people, answering questions and being challenged, which forced me to look further into the evidence for my beliefs... So all those atheists and Christians trying to refute me did me a big favor.

 

[rational experiences]

It is easy to say the certainty of a male being wrong, was expressed in his own life sacrificed in the states of science. The Temple/pyramid histories.

And that history says a male choice, living as a male on a stone O planet, whose history he says began as a conscious advice, and consciousness said to be via the gases that the natural cold spatial cell supports, as Christ evaluations.

From a hot dense state...and then never were talking any other relative other than God the stone and the volcano mountain ^.

Males applied living on the body of God the stone, as just the planetary history a review of the cosmos...which in certainty owns our destruction.

For the story about God O said, that pre existing mass was attacked by the Sun rebellion (exploding of a cooling mass) and it attacked and sent various God O pre owned and pre formed mass into the great deep pit, as the black hole particularisation of form.

And said that in that cosmological history God O the Earth was saved by Satan....as the Earth could not fall any further...for the mass beneath it in space stopped its own fall.

Humans living on Earth proved to self that certainty why they said that humans living on Earth, doing occult radiation sciences fell...for the body of God was activated again in loss of its MASS and did also fall...again.

The story of God O and the O oblate God own that proof....pressure changed.

Why that history is our certainty.....why today males in God O Earth science laws argue about the relativity of our God O body becoming Satan...and think it relative to God being a particle. When God is an attacked, converted and changed fusion of held particles from Sun penetration into its mass.

So we own a O God certainty that we will never become Satan...for God told us so.

 

[YoursTrue]

I see dreams as another world, where it plays out between what is reality and what life has done to influence our state of mind.

Dreams can be quite bizarre!

Regards Tony

Some have dreams vividly but they probably don't know they're sleeping. I am happy I don't remember my dreams. I have hope but that hope is based on the Bible and that hope is in my mind and heart when I am awake.

 

[YoursTrue]

No, because what we are certain of could be wrong.

I am certain I am right about my beliefs. I am certain that Baha'u'llah was who He claimed to be, a Messenger of God, and everything else follows from that belief.

I am certain that Christians are right about many things but dead wrong about other things, yet they are certain they are right about all their beliefs.

Certainty has nothing to do with evidence, although evidence can lead to certainty. For me, that is what happened. Had you asked me about seven years ago if I was certain of my beliefs, I would have said I was 80 or 90% certain, but now I am 100% certain. The reason I am 100% certain now is because of seven years on forums posting to people, answering questions and being challenged, which forced me to look further into the evidence for my beliefs... So all those atheists and Christians trying to refute me did me a big favor.

Are you saying that it is possible, despite your beliefs, that you are wrong?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Some have dreams vividly but they probably don't know they're sleeping. I am happy I don't remember my dreams. I have hope but that hope is based on the Bible and that hope is in my mind and heart when I am awake.

All my Absolute Certainty also finds Foundation in the Bible.

Regards Tony

 

[YoursTrue]

All my Absolute Certainty also finds Foundation in the Bible.

Regards Tony

Not sure what you mean there. Some people are absolutely certain that there is a burning hell that is awaiting to have people (souls?) thrown into it and thereby torturing them forever. They are certain about this. I am certain they are mistaken.
Also, some people have enzymes or hormones that can activate problematic brain situations.

 

[Trailblazer]

Are you saying that it is possible, despite your beliefs, that you are wrong?

Of course that is possible, hypothetically speaking, because beliefs do not create reality.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not sure what you mean there.

I am not sure what Tony meant, but as Baha'is, we believe that the Bible was God's greatest testimony to His creatures because Baha'u'llah wrote that in our second most holy book.

Addressing Muslims who believed that the genuine text of the heavenly Gospel had been corrupted, Baha'u'llah wrote: “How could God, when once the Day-star of the beauty of Jesus had disappeared from the sight of His people, and ascended unto the fourth heaven, cause His holy Book, His most great testimony amongst His creatures, to disappear also?” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 89

 

[IndigoChild5559]

This is a discussion about Absolute Certainty.

First I will give what I see are Absolute Certainty.

100% Certain of God - Unknowable.
100% God sends Messengers.
100% Certain those Messengers are all we can know of God.
100% Certain that if you believe in one of those Messengers, one has found a source of Truth.
100% Certain that we are in true form, we are Spirit.
100% Certain that creation is a Relative Certainty.
100% Certain that all people have this knowledge within.
100% Certain, that we will mess up that Certainty.

Well that is a good start.

What about you, what are your Absolute Certainties?

Do your Certainties find any agreement in Mine?

Do you think we can have Absolute Certainty?

Regards Tony

I don't think there is absolute certainty of anything. I could be insane. The world could be an illusion of my mind. Science seems to indicate that our perception of the world is quite imperfect. Etc.

No offense to your beliefs, you have every right to them. However, IMHO I think that if you think about these things deeply enough, you will spot other explanations for why things seem the way they do.

For example, I firmly believe in God. Yet at the same time, I acknowledge that God may simply be an expression of an evolutionary trait to find meaning and purpose, and to see a designer when none is there, much like we are evolved to see faces when none is there (think happy faces, faces in clouds, etc.). IOW, I may believe in God because I need to believe in God. But need does not always translate to reality. And so I remain what I have been told is an "agnostic Theist." My "doubt" does not plague me. 99.9% of the time it doesn't affect me at all. But there is always that 0.1% of the time when I am deep in thought, and think about it.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't think there is absolute certainty of anything. I could be insane. The world could be an illusion of my mind. Science seems to indicate that our perception of the world is quite imperfect. Etc.

No offense to your beliefs, you have every right to them. However, IMHO I think that if you think about these things deeply enough, you will spot other explanations for why things seem the way they do.

For example, I firmly believe in God. Yet at the same time, I acknowledge that God may simply be an expression of an evolutionary trait to find meaning and purpose, and to see a designer when none is there, much like we are evolved to see faces when none is there (think happy faces, faces in clouds, etc.). IOW, I may believe in God because I need to believe in God. But need does not always translate to reality. And so I remain what I have been told is an "agnostic Theist."

Thanks for the thoughts. Thus I guess you are saying you do not have Absolute Certitude.

The explanations I have found in my search of what is God, based on what I have seen are very logical and undeniable poofs, is what gives me an Absolute Certainty.

That may not work for all people.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

But there is always that 0.1% of the time when I am deep in thought, and think about it.

I also think about it about that amount of the time, and then I realize why I am thinking it.
God does not provide absolute proof because God wants us to have faith.
I think God wants that tiny doubt to remain so we will try harder.