Have You rejected God's Message?

[columbus]

it is the Messenger who establishes the existence of the deity

Exactly!

Various prophets or messengers or whatever create a god in their own image. If the message and/or prophet is sufficiently enticing, Voila! A new and different religion and God have come into existence.

T'was ever thus....
Tom

 

[columbus]

No, God cannot come to earth and deliver the message Himself, so He has to rely upon a Messenger.
It's really that simple.

That's exactly the same thing, except that your version is less rational. You claim to believe in Almighty God.
I don't.

In both cases, God is unable to accomplish a simple task.
In your version, God is Almighty and also very limited. In mine, God just doesn't care about humans, and is no more interested in communication with humans than gravity is.
Tom

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well, when folks continue to put my faith in 'all religions' when it's plainly not true, I'm supposed to not disagree? Sure. Hindus don't need saving from anything, and we'd rather be left out of such discussions, as we're in a different paradigm, as you know.

I was careful to state "I suspect there is a similar narrative in other faiths" as opposed to all faiths.

Have You rejected God's Message?

 

[Vinayaka]

I was careful to "I suspect there is a similar narrative in other faiths" as opposed to all faiths.

Have You rejected God's Message?

Well, your suspicions were wrong, and it just proves how involved in other faith's businesses your faith gets. Why not just be the best Baha'i you can be, and keep comments about other faiths (not just mine, but any others who have continued to express dismay at how the Baha'i gets it wrong with regard to theirs) to yourself? It would go a long way to creating a more harmonious world because people wouldn't feel the need to defend themselves against misinformation. But no, just get right in there and keep making those digs. Surely you're smart enough to see that.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Well, your suspicions were wrong, and it just proves how involved in other faith's businesses your faith gets. Why not just be the best Baha'i you can be, and keep comments about other faiths (not just mine, but any others who have continued to express dismay at how the Baha'i gets it wrong with regard to theirs) to yourself? It would go a long way to creating a more harmonious world because people wouldn't feel the need to defend themselves against misinformation. But no, just get right in there and keep making those digs. Surely you're smart enough to see that.

So what did I say that misrepresented Hinduism again?

 

[wizanda]

Hindus don't need saving from anything, and we'd rather be left out of such discussions, as we're in a different paradigm, as you know.

Since most Hindu's don't understand Lord Shiva trapped them in a Snare: Where Kali catches many of the 'blood thirsty Adharmic demons' (Raktabīja) with her tongue down here near Hell; before they are burned in the Sāṁvartaka Fire - I'd say they'd need help saving.

Before Lord Skanda vanquishes the 'demons of salvation' (Tārakāsura); 'jesus' means 'a grub that tears away', Yeshua means 'salvation' (Isaiah 51:8 = H5580 VS H3444).

This whole thing is a Dharma test, currently most have failed by rejection of the exam papers; it is possible to raise the moral IQ with advanced study of religious texts globally as One.

In my opinion.

 

[Vinayaka]

So what did I say that misrepresented Hinduism again?

You lumped us in with 'all religions'. Of course you will say it's not insulting. I expect that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Various prophets or messengers or whatever create a god in their own image. If the message and/or prophet is sufficiently enticing, Voila! A new and different religion and God have come into existence.

No, it is humans who create God or gods in their own image. Prophets and Messengers reveal who God really is.

 

[Trailblazer]

You lumped us in with 'all religions'. Of course you will say it's not insulting. I expect that.

Hinduism is not a religion?
Last I checked on the internet it is one of the largest religions in the world.

 

[Vinayaka]

Hinduism is not a religion?
Last I checked on the internet it is one of the largest religions in the world.

You missed the post. It was something like saying 'All religions believe in Baha'u'llah.' Stating something about all religions agreeing on something, when they don't.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's exactly the same thing, except that your version is less rational. You claim to believe in Almighty God.
I don't.

In both cases, God is unable to accomplish a simple task.

God is able to accomplish the task but God does it how God chooses to do it because God is omnipotent.
Moreover, God knows the best way to accomplish the task because God is omniscient.

 

[Trailblazer]

You missed the post. It was something like saying 'All religions believe in Baha'u'llah.' Stating something about all religions agreeing on something, when they don't.

Sorry, I missed the context of that discussion.
Of course all religions do not believe in Baha'u'llah, only Baha'is believe in Baha'u'llah.

 

[Dawnofhope]

You missed the post. It was something like saying 'All religions believe in Baha'u'llah.' Stating something about all religions agreeing on something, when they don't.

Well, there's only one religion that believes in Baha'u'llah and that's the Baha'í Faith. We're very unique in that respect.

 

[Vinayaka]

Sorry, I missed the context of that discussion.
Of course all religions do not believe in Baha'u'llah, only Baha'is believe in Baha'u'llah.

See post 22.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The only thing that has any real worth in religion is anything positively geared toward human-to-human interactions

I can agree that this is a great thing to look for and work with, all of us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is as presumptuous as it is ignorant.

At the very least, why not just let Jews speak for themselves?

I see the writings speak for themselves, we tend to bend them to suit our nature and nurture, our own prefeneces.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

See post 22.

Okay, I can see why it would have been objectionable to assume that there is something similar.to Christianity in all faiths.... "We all fall short of the Grace of God and are in need of redemption" is a Christian doctrine and quite frankly it is offensive to me. Baha'is are not required to believe in Christian doctrines.

 

[LuisDantas]

Have you rejected a Message given by God?

Regards Tony

No, but I certainly have not had faith in any god's existence either.

In all honesty, I don't think I ever had to decide either.

 

[SigurdReginson]

My mom was raised Greek Orthodox, my dad was Anglican (Church of England). Their roots were in Rochester, NY. So I am guessing you were not raised in Western WA State.

Oh actually I live now not far from where I was raised. I've tried living in other states but this place keeps drawing me back. I love these old woods.

Greek Orthodox and Anglican are pretty different for sure. Definitely seems more east coast in origin. Were your parents from the old world or were they born in the states?

I am sure there is a lot of volunteer work you can do, and I would not think you would have to be a member of the Church.

Don't dismantle the excuses I tell myself! For me, I do more things on the side when I hold myself accountable, and it's easier to do that when I'm part of a community. I suppose it isn't necessary, as I've still done volunteer stuff without it, but it might be better for me. Not sure yet! I haven't been a part of a community like that since I left Christianity a few years back. It'd be interesting to see how it'll effect my life.

There is really a lot more to the Baha'i Faith than I ever knew when I joined but I know a lot more now mostly because of having conversed on forums, fielding questions and discussing it with others, which forced me to have to read for myself so I could discuss my beliefs. I am not good at doing things just for myself, but I will do anything for others, anything within my capacity.

I much prefer to engage in dialogues with people of different religions and atheists because I learn so much and it is more interesting than having discussions with those who share my beliefs. There is a lot I like about Christianity but I could not be a Christian because it is too exclusive. I could never be any religion that does not recognize all the major religions as true which is why I could only be a Baha'i.

I was always raised with the idea that there could only be one true religion. The idea that they all are cultural expressions reaching up and trying to interpret the divine is interesting to me. It's a beautiful idea. I explored similar ideas found in Deism years back, though in the end it wasn't for me. Still, it's something I admire.

Talking to so many atheists has helped me to understand why they do not believe in God but it has not caused me to question that God exists. But I do understand why some things that believers believe about God are questionable, such as God being All-Loving. Not so much on this forum, but on other forums an All-Good God is called into question by atheists because of all the suffering in the world. I am on the same page with atheists on this, but because of Baha'u'llah cannot not believe in God and that God is good (I say that with glib tongue in cheek. )

I continue to struggle with some of what is attributed to God in various scriptures and will probably do so for the remainder of my life. For me, a belief has to make logical sense if I am going to believe it, and all the suffering as well as the fact that suffering is so unevenly distributed, does not make complete sense to me. I understand what my religion teaches about that and I accept the reasons for suffering to a certain extent, but not fully, so God is kind of in the dog house.

Hmmm. Suffering is a hard topic. Buddhism comments a lot on it's existance and how to deal with and rise above it. Zoroastrianism has an awesome approach to doing the right thing, and that good actions are required to overpower evil in the world. What is the Bahaii concept of evil and darkness? Any devil figure that's seen like in Abrahamic faiths?

As for me, I always loved the modern Heathen approach to pain and suffering. It's simply an aspect of reality. It's something to conquer, even if it is a hopeless fight. It isn't about accepting and succumbing to one's fate, but to take that fate and to fight to the bitter end, tooth and nail.

It's hard for me to imagine an all "good" god, as our concept of what is good or not relies entirely on our own self interest, and how we empathize with other things according to the social constructs that we frame the world in. We put everything we can see and know inside of a box and try to categorize it according to the way we understand things.

If gods surely exists, then nature is the canvas they paint on. To me, that would be the reflection of a god's inner being. Suffering, pain, and death would be part of that painting. So would comfort, joy, and life. I don't see those negatives as a bad thing personally, nor are they good. They just are, and they exist independant of what we feel is right or wrong. We give them the identity of being right or wrong, they aren't innately that way.

Though it isn't a nice neat concept that brings comfort that everything ends well, it's honest. We aren't the center of the universe, and we don't know half as much as we'd like to think. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try, though.

There is still time as you are so young... My first degrees were a BA and an MA in Geography and that is what I have used for my career. I made the decision to go back to school and get a second MA in Psychology in my late 30s but I did not get my degree till I was 44 years old. Then I went to a School of Homeopathy and got another degree three years later. But I never used either degree for a career. I stayed with my original career as a GIS Cartographer and I will retire out of that career.

Yup! Not gonna squander my time. I just wish I was wiser about the way I spent my money when I was younger. Oh well, the past is in the past, and now is the time.

 

[wizanda]

"We all fall short of the Grace of God and are in need of redemption" is a Christian doctrine and quite frankly it is offensive to me. Baha'is are not required to believe in Christian doctrines.

"We fall short of the glory of the Source" is not Christian, it is universal.

According to the world's religions, we're down near Hell; most people reject that, and therefore the idea we need redemption, when we are near Hell should be obvious to us.

How we gain redemption is part of the problem, too many religions believe in a cult mentality of following a leader, where that some how automates someone to having salvation.

The religious texts globally say we can gain redemption from us being down near Hell, by us learning to be wiser, which means understanding all of the religious texts as One.

Source keeps sending Messengers when we get lost; people then argue over which is right, rather than listen to the whole.

In my opinion.