Creationists -- Please answer David Attenborough for me...

[Deeje]

Irony: the single group of people who make the claim "nothing from nothing"? Is Creationists and similar god-book followers.

No actual scientists, nor actual scientific theory, ever makes such a silly claim!

No-- Nothing from Nothing is straight outta the BIBLE in Genesis 1!

If scientists are your gods, their writings are your scripture, and science is your religion, then how are you any different....?

You need as much faith as we do to believe what cannot be proven. To us, God created what scientists study...they are a long way from knowing it all.....but they like to pretend that that they do....

 

[Deeje]

Okay, then. Your quickest and smartest explanation: nothing comes from nothing, therefore something had to create something -- so where did the creative something come from?

Since this Being is said to be eternal and immortal.....he had no beginning and will have no end......can you comprehend infinity? He didn't come from anywhere....he always was and always will be. When science can explain this, then you will have your answer.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

...without a shred of evidence for the myths of adam and eve, eden, flood, exodus, etc etc

I've posted so much evidence for the Flood, from the Ark's ideal ratios, to the vast animal graveyards in Arctic regions, to geologic and language evidences! There's been no 'debunking' of them, only counter-arguments...not the same thing.

 

[Deeje]

Didn't god caused the water canopy to disappear from making it rain to flood the earth?

Before it rained on the earth Genesis 2:5-6 says....
"No bush of the field was yet on the earth and no vegetation of the field had begun sprouting, because Jehovah God had not made it rain on the earth and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6 But a mist would go up from the earth, and it watered the entire surface of the ground."

This would explain why vegetation could survive with light and moisture before there were creatures to eat them.
There is no mention of the water canopy having provided the water, but it would have created "hothouse" conditions with high humidity and even temperatures.

Peter mentions the water canopy as a source of water for the flood. (2 Peter 3:3-7) It also explains why people would scoff at the suggestion that God would intervene again to bring wickedness to an end.

Also, we shouldn't forget the time would be shorten for each "kind" of animals to evolve because of the flood. Noah took a pair(or seven pairs of clean and one pair of unclean animals) onboard the ark. So that would the "kinds" having to restart their evolution of new species.

According to my understanding, the "kinds" mentioned in the Bible would probably refer to a "Family" of creatures. These 'families' cannot breed outside their own "kind"....and naturally within their own "Genus", producing a variety of species. In oceans filled with fish, we can see that they only reproduce with their own "kind".

There are genetic road blocks that prevent different species from continued interbreeding. e.g. a horse and a donkey, both being equines, can produce a mule, because they are members of the same 'family', but their offspring are sterile. That is the end of the line. Lions and tigers, likewise being felines, can interbreed but their offspring too are sterile.

When God said he limited all reproduction to their "kinds", that is what we see in nature. The two examples above would never interbreed in the wild, but are artificially produced by man. Its what makes all creatures readily identifiable, and classifiable.

Since the Bible does not tell us whether God assisted in the rapid reproduction and dispersion of these species, we can only assume that adaptation was a large part of their development as they traveled to new locations and adapted to new environments and food sources.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No actual scientists, nor actual scientific theory, ever makes such a silly claim [that nothing comes from nothing]!

So... 'something' comes from nothing??
I think "spontaneous generation" has been disproven.

 

[Jose Fly]

I've posted so much evidence for the Flood, from the Ark's ideal ratios, to the vast animal graveyards in Arctic regions, to geologic and language evidences! There's been no 'debunking' of them, only counter-arguments...not the same thing.

Seriously? It's impossible to debunk your flood belief when every time someone presents you with a physical impossibility you just invoke "God did that part". Sheesh.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Seriously? It's impossible to debunk your flood belief when every time someone presents you with a physical impossibility you just invoke "God did that part". Sheesh.

I can only of one "physical impossibility" that I said 'God did that,' because the Bible doesn't address it, i.e., doesn't provide an explanation.... That is the protection of vegetation for over a year under those waters.

Can you think of another?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Seriously? It's impossible to debunk your flood belief when every time someone presents you with a physical impossibility you just invoke "God did that part". Sheesh.

To add: Yes, Genesis tells us Jehovah gave Noah those ideal dimensions of the Ark, and He brought the animals to Noah. He also brought the Floodwaters, from above and below. And Jehovah closed the door.

Do you really think we should assume there's nothing else He might have done?

 

[Jose Fly]

I can only of one "physical impossibility" that I said 'God did that,' because the Bible doesn't address it, i.e., doesn't provide an explanation.... That is the protection of vegetation for over a year under those waters.

Can you think of another?

The specific number of instances you can think of doesn't matter...that you do it at all matters, and is what renders the whole scenario un-debunkable.

I can make up any scenario I like and whenever someone presents me with a difficulty, just say "God did that part". Have I really done anything meaningful? I don't think so.

To add: Yes, Genesis tells us Jehovah gave Noah those ideal dimensions of the Ark, and He brought the animals to Noah. He also brought the Floodwaters, from above and below. And Jehovah closed the door.

Do you really think we should assume there's nothing else He might have done?

You missed the point. See above.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The specific number of instances you can think of doesn't matter...that you do it at all matters, and is what renders the whole scenario un-debunkable.

I can make up any scenario I like and whenever someone presents me with a difficulty, just say "God did that part". Have I really done anything meaningful? I don't think so.

Well if you don't want to....

 

[Jose Fly]

Well if you don't want to....

???????? If I don't want to.....what?

 

[Deeje]

It seems to me that Adam and Eve's ignorance in right and wrong was the reason why they disobeyed god. According to the bible, isn't the very act of disobedience considered to be wrong, a sin and an act of "evil?" So responsibility wouldn't fall on them because they didn't know that disobeying god was wrong.

Have you read Genesis at all? I mean really read it, not just skimmed over the words? There is a lot of information between the lines if your mind is not closed.....and if you use other scripture to fill in the blanks.

Actually, if you read the Genesis account, a lot of the issues that people (who are are ignorant of the Bible's teachings) raise, are settled.....the trouble is, flawed humans think that they can judge their Creator.....its a nice illusion.....but they will find out soon enough what "sovereignty" means.

It amuses me to no end that people will support their governments in their military actions but never criticize their treatment of their enlisted people who may disobey a command. If you step out of line in the military, what happens? That is what sovereignty means. A sovereign is your ruler and lawmaker.....you answer to him (them) for any disobedience to stated laws. Penalties apply that are well known before any disobedience takes place. What is unfair about that?

But if being technical, "evil" intruded paradise when Adam was obeying that command. The serpent did lie to Eve before she ate the fruit, did it not?

As their Sovereign, God had the right to set the limits of their tenancy here. He created this home for them......perfect in every way...he also created their bodies, which were marvelous in their design and construction and amazing in their capacity for knowledge and planning ability. As the only creatures on earth who were made in the image of their Creator, having his moral capacity and attributes, they were assigned as caretakers of God's Earth. They were responsible to their 'Landlord' to take care of his property and all the creatures who would share life with him here.

It is of interest that the first rebel was not human. This wannabe 'god' saw an opportunity to fulfill an unnatural ambition of his own, using the only creatures who were intelligent enough to worship him as a god. By hijacking the human race, he created a situation that needed a long term strategy to resolve. All of God's intelligent creation were involved in this, so at the end of the day, every one of them will have proved either their loyalty to God or their loyalty to his adversary. Each will 'reap what they have sown'.

Had God ever given them reason to distrust him? Had he ever demonstrated mean -spiritedness towards them? All they needed to do was obey him, and trust that he always had their best interests at heart....they failed to do that, because someone told them a convincing lie......Instead of wiping them out and starting again, and perhaps having the same thing happen, God used the rebellion of his angelic sons and his human children to establish the pros and cons of independence from God. He would allow them all to make their decisions and reap the consequences of making their own ill considered decisions.

So far all we have experienced is trouble....we have never lived in the world that God first created for his children....but in our hearts, we desire it. Paradise locations all over the world are sought out...even for a short vacation because we all know that these are the conditions we were meant to live in. It is programmed into us.......God has promised to bring us back to paradise. He is the only one who delivers on his promises. (Isaiah 55:11)

 

[74x12]

I find it strange when people state this stuff so matter-of-factly.

When has anyone ever demonstrated the existence of "evil spirits" operating in the world?? The Bible may say that sorcery is real, but it simply isn't in any demonstrable way.

Just saying, parasitic worms in people's eyes does not prove that God is not real. Because I believe evil also exists; not just God.

Perhaps God originally made these worms to punish evil doers. Or perhaps He didn't make them evil at all and they were twisted. After all, we humans are beginning to delve into genetic engineering. There is no reason I know of that would prevent Satan from doing so also. But now (either way) these worms are also feeding on innocent people. I don't know. I'm speculating that it's probably not God's doing.

But ... you're the kind of person that not just questions the existence of God but also of good/evil also. That's your opinion, but from my perspective parasites that feed on humans is not a good reason to not believe in God.

 

[Audie]

Just saying, parasitic worms in people's eyes does not prove that God is not real. Because I believe evil also exists; not just God.

Perhaps God originally made these worms to punish evil doers. Or perhaps He didn't make them evil at all and they were twisted. After all, we humans are beginning to delve into genetic engineering. There is no reason I know of that would prevent Satan from doing so also. But now (either way) these worms are also feeding on innocent people. I don't know. I'm speculating that it's probably not God's doing.

But ... you're the kind of person that not just questions the existence of God but also of good/evil also. That's your opinion, but from my perspective parasites that feed on humans is not a good reason to not believe in God.

What would be a good reason

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If scientists are your gods, their writings are your scripture, and science is your religion, then how are you any different....?.

Here? We have your inability to see any world-view other than yours. Deep down, you recognize that calling something "religion" is insulting, and you then attempt to paint a world view different from yours with the same ridiculous, irrational brush.

It does not fly: I have no religion. I have no faith-- not how you mean it.

In direct contrast to you? I'm willing to change my mind, if presented with evidence.

DO YOU HAVE ANY? No?

You, however, have been presented with literally 100's of years worth-- and you still reject it!

YOU WILL BELIEVE NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE YOU USE FAITH, INSTEAD OF REASON.

You need as much faith as we do to believe what cannot be proven. To us, God created what scientists study...they are a long way from knowing it all.....but they like to pretend that that they do....

Lie. See above.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Since this Being is said to be eternal and immortal.....he had no beginning and will have no end......can you comprehend infinity? He didn't come from anywhere....he always was and always will be. When science can explain this, then you will have your answer.

The universe has no beginning-- no end. It was never created, and has no need to be created.

SEE? If YOU can use a Mcguffin? So can we!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

To add: Yes, Genesis tells us Jehovah gave Noah those ideal dimensions of the Ark, and He brought the animals to Noah. He also brought the Floodwaters, from above and below. And Jehovah closed the door.

Do you really think we should assume there's nothing else He might have done?

How about MAGIC? You keep forgetting the MAGIC part: Wherein god must MAGICALLY get all the sloth animals into the MAGIC BOAT-- animals who sleep almost 23 hours a day, and move at inches per hour.

Or MAGICALLY get all the animals unique to Australia to the boat and back without leaving a single bone, or footprint. Same for New Zealand. Same for Madagascar.

Or MAGICALLY make all the salt water fish? Suddenly capable of tolerating half salt, half fresh. Same for all the fresh water.

Or MAGICALLY keep an un-ruddered wooden boat from floundering in the seas, and sinking-- As simulations in the US Navy Wave Simulator show would actually happen.

Or MAGICALLY keep a wooden boat from sinking due to a lack of caulking methods.

Or MAGICALLY keeping all the plants on the earth ALIVE WHILE UNDER WATER FOR NEARLY A YEAR. Where did that Olive Branch the dove brings Noah come from, again? MAGIC!

For even SEEDS would have died under all that half-salt water!

Or MAGICALLY FEED THE CARNIVORES, once they left the magic wooden boat-- NOTHING FOR THEM TO HAVE FOR BREAKFAST--- maybe THAT is what happened to all the Unicorns the bible talks about so often?

TO MAKE THE SILLY ARK STORY WORK: YOU MUST INVOKE MAGIC.

A LOT.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

So... 'something' comes from nothing??
I think "spontaneous generation" has been disproven.

LMAO! Show me the MONEY, bub. Show me where ANYONE claims "spontaneous generation" is real.

Oh! Silly me! THAT WOULD BE YOU BIBLE WORSHIPERS! YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

God makes all the PLANTS FROM NOTHING. A day or so ... BEFORE THE ACTUAL SUN.

How dumb is THAT?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

LMAO! Show me the MONEY, bub. Show me where ANYONE claims "spontaneous generation" is real.

Oh! Silly me! THAT WOULD BE YOU BIBLE WORSHIPERS! YOU THINK THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED.

God makes all the PLANTS FROM NOTHING. A day or so ... BEFORE THE ACTUAL SUN.

How dumb is THAT?

Grief man, calm down! It seems you’re stressing out...that’s not healthy.

 

[Deeje]

Grief man, calm down! It seems you’re stressing out...that’s not healthy.

Its so important for God not to be real......they know what it means if he is.....do you think this is what creates the stress and the desperation in these posts? Its the mean-spiritedness that gives it away.....why can't they let believers believe......the same as they do.

We all have the same evidence but we interpret it very differently. Science cannot prove evolution ever happened with any concrete evidence and I believe that reminding them of this makes them angry. Every article I have ever read on evolution must use the language of probability, because there is no proof that any of it took place as they assume it did.... Why is it so hard to admit?