Is progressive revelation believable?

[shunyadragon]

Book of Mormon subsumes Judaism and Christianity.

Bahai subsumes all three monotheistic faiths.

It's the song that never ends.

That is the point of progressive revelation, the 'Song never ends.'

 

[Aupmanyav]

Arguing from popularity is a fallacy, nor a reality beyond a subjective assertion.

In that case One Allah is perhaps the biggest fallacy in the world.

Could you elaborate a bit on what you mean by this.

We, and I myself, are not of the view that human beings require a divinely ordained positive law as in Mosaic times - which I would refer to as "legislation" - for the purpose of consolidating nation-states or solidifying international relations between them.

 

[shunyadragon]

In that case One Allah is perhaps the biggest fallacy in the world.

OK this is what you believe, but beyond that it is only an assertion of belief.

We, and I myself, are not of the view that human beings require a divinely ordained positive law as in Mosaic times - which I would refer to as "legislation" - for the purpose of consolidating nation-states or solidifying international relations between them.

We? Who is we that is only meaningful as to what they personally believe.?

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Baha'i Faith does not define separately whether progressive Revelation occurs 'only' between religions nor within religions.
False religions fail over time, and reveal their bad fruit.
Humans in ancient religions often did justify their violence against others as being ordered by God, but in reality no,
The corruption of religion reveals itself in ancient religions violate revealed spiritual laws and principles like the Ten Commandments.

Muhammad allowed for divorce, and forbade the drinking of alcohol. The Revelation of Muhammad restored true belief rejecting the corruption of religion by confirmed the absolute Oneness and Unity of God rejecting the Trinity and the belief of an incarnate God.

The Oneness and Unity of God, and that humans cannot define God in their own cultural terms separated from others that believe differently, and corrupt religion by defining God in their own cultural view.

The proofs? of the Manifestation of God, are in the advances of the evolution of of the spiritual nature of humanity. In the New Age of the Baha'i Revelation this can be found first in the spiritual principles that are the standards of the contemporary world.

That is sort of strange. First Bahaullah, then Adbul Baha and Shoghi Effendi and then the House of Justice - no one clarified it! That needs another manifestation.
Well, Hinduism has not failed for some 5000 years. I think that would make it the truest religion.
Hinduism never justified unjust violence.
Except for the first four where the Abrahamic God encourages servitude and demands his worship, which has created conflict in the world, you would find all other commandments in Hinduism. These are the rules which support a society. It is not an Abrahamic trade mark. Other religions too have them.

What Mohammad did is repeated by Bahaullah. Rejecting other religions and declaring itself to be the best. That too is an Abrahamic tradition. Every one has done that since Moses time.

You are only trying to impose your culture which is not backed by any evidence. GodGodsGoddesses do not exist. They are born of human imagination.

What Bahai law says is not the standard in the world. Look at your treatment of women and LGBTQ. To insist upon the worship of one God also is not the world standard today, people respect various views. You are retrograde in this respect.

Basically, all that you have written has no worth.

 

[Terry Sampson]

1. Jesus' conversational skills as an infant in the crib at less than, what, a month or so of age,
2. Jesus' noticeably atypical willingness to murder a kid that bumped him, and
3. Jesus' ability to breathe life into a clay bird.

Please document with reference if you believe it is in the Quran,

I stand corrected regarding #2. That was indeed one of Jesus' actions in the Infancy Gospel of James.
Regarding #3 speaks of one clay bird (cited in the Qur'an: 5:110. In the Infancy Gospel of James--if my memory serves me correctly--Jesus made several clay birds and they all flew away.
#1, too, is referenced in the Infancy Gospel and in the Qur'an at 5:110.
See my attachment below which contains all citations in which the name of Jesus, with and without his mother, Mary's, name. No Joseph in sight.

Not mentioned previously are 5:112 and 5:114, in which the fantasy feast from heaven is mentioned, which may be Allah's version of the Eurachist "bread and wine" OR Jesus' feeding of the multitude.

Qur'an 3:59 tells us that "the likeness of Jesus in Allah's sight" was that of Adam, created from dust and told "Be".

Qur'an 4:57 says that Jesus was not crucified, nor was he killed; he only "appeared" to be

Qur'an 5:116 says that Allah asked Jesus if he was the one who told people to consider Jesus and Mary as gods, which Jesus never did, which makes Allah seem either petty of ill-informed.

Qur'an 61:6 puts the prophecy of Muhammed's future arrival in the mouth of Jesus, which never happened.

Qur'an 61:14 appears, IMO, to say that Allah made the Christians dominant over those who did not believe in Jesus..

 

[Terry Sampson]

Bahai subsumes all three monotheistic faiths.

Baha'i subsumes the Latter-Day-Saints? LOL!

 

[Muffled]

Some people ask why is there multiple religions in the world, which God is true the christians God or the Islamic Allah?

But what if I told you that divine revelation is progressive.

That Prophets / Messengers known as Manifestations of God has been sent in every age in human history and evolution to guide humanity in the right spiritual path, that the holy Bible and holy Qur'an was divine education that was suited for the time and age in which it was revealed in. And that we have a current Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God, and current divine scriptures / education for this time and age that we live in right now.

Edit: I've noticed that some people is addressing the "truth is not absolute but relative" statement that I made. So let me put it this way: some truths are not absolute and some truths are relative. It depends what truths are being talked about.

I believe there is progressive revelation. I believe the Qu'ran has progressive revelation for the idol worshipers of Arabia and a tiny bit of little importance for the Christian community since Christians already have the Gospel which is sufficient to the end of time. I dn't believe the Bahais have any.

 

[Muffled]

I'm not Baha'i, but... seems perfectly logical to me...

I believe it sounds great until you look at the facts.

 

[paarsurrey]

Some people ask why is there multiple religions in the world, which God is true the christians God or the Islamic Allah?

But what if I told you that divine revelation is progressive.

That Prophets / Messengers known as Manifestations of God has been sent in every age in human history and evolution to guide humanity in the right spiritual path, that the holy Bible and holy Qur'an was divine education that was suited for the time and age in which it was revealed in. And that we have a current Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God, and current divine scriptures / education for this time and age that we live in right now.

Edit: I've noticed that some people is addressing the "truth is not absolute but relative" statement that I made. So let me put it this way: some truths are not absolute and some truths are relative. It depends what truths are being talked about.

That Prophets / Messengers known as Manifestations of God has been sent in every age in human history

"known as Manifestations of God"

It is absolutely wrong, as I understand, to state that the office of "Prophets/Messengers of G-d" is commonly "known as Manifestations of God" in Zoroastrianism,Judaism, Christendom or in Islam. Right, please?
With this argument it is faulty and impossible to prove that Revelation is progressive as is suggested by the topic of the thread which means, as I understand, that Bahaullah's writings are progression on the previous Revelation while Bahaullah had no Word of Revelation from God. If yes, then please quote from Iqan in this connection .Right, please?

Regards
_____________
An introduction.#182,#183
if we lose religions data #38

 

[Muffled]

Logic like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. While the model makes persect sense to me there will be objections from every worldview imaginable.

For example, some Jews will not recognise anything in the New Testament or Quran as being consisitent with Hebrew scripture.

Many Christians believe Jesus was God incarnate, the holy trinity and the resurrection. They will be quick to reject Muhammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Buddha and Hinduism.

Many Muslims believe Muhammad was the last Prophet and there can be no further Prophets or Divine Revelation beyond the Quran.

Some Buddhists are atheists and reject the concept of God.

Some Hindus have a very negative view towards the Abraham Faiths and believe knowledge from God or gods can be accessed first hand. A belief in reincarnation can be a barrier towards seeing other faiths, particularly the Abrahamic Faiths, favourably.

I believe there is a great deal of bias but in many cases it is irrational.

 

[Wandering Monk]

Baha'i subsumes the Latter-Day-Saints? LOL!

They don't count.

 

[Muffled]

If you're talking about the claims of the current Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God that's known as Baha'u'llah, then you will find that His life and His teachings are the proofs and evidences of what He is.

I believe that is true and that it reveals that he has no revelation from God and that makes him a religious philosopher.

 

[Muffled]

That's why Baha'u'llah explained why the religions seemed different, that all the major world scriptures are part of one book of God with different chapters of each time and age.

I believe as usual he is making suppositions that he can't support rationally.

 

[Muffled]

I'd say that you're probably a Baha'i. If you think that there's no difference between the Jesus Christ in the Qur'an and the Jesus Christ I believe in, you're going to be confused when I say there is a fundamental difference.

I do not believe there is a fundamental difference but there is a sparsity in the Qu'ran but why would God bother rewriting the NT?

 

[Muffled]

"I dn't believe the Bahais have any."

Friend @Muffled !
Does one want to say that the one doesn't believe that Bahaullah had any word of Revelation from G-d? If yes, then the wording should have been something like "I don't believe Bahaullah had any Word of Revelation from God ". If so, can one amend one's sentence accordingly, please? Does one agree with it, please?

Regards

I believe I thought that would be understood.

In a sense the B man reveals his own thinking so you could call that revelation.

 

[paarsurrey]

I believe I thought that would be understood.

In a sense the B man reveals his own thinking so you could call that revelation.

I understand.
It is OK with me.

Regards

 

[shunyadragon]

That is sort of strange. First Bahaullah, then Adbul Baha and Shoghi Effendi and then the House of Justice - no one clarified it! That needs another manifestation.

Not needed for the near future and a matter of fact no religion 'codifies' the needs of another manifestation.

Well, Hinduism has not failed for some 5000 years. I think that would make it the truest religion.

Well, ah . . . none of the believers of any religion believe they failed. They, as you, believe other religions failed.

Hinduism never justified unjust violence.

Hindus like all religious believers are human, and commit acts of violence in the name of whatever. Unless for some reason you are claiming Hindus are not human.

Except for the first four where the Abrahamic God encourages servitude and demands his worship, which has created conflict in the world, you would find all other commandments in Hinduism. These are the rules which support a society. It is not an Abrahamic trade mark. Other religions too have them.

What Mohammad did is repeated by Baha'u'llah. Rejecting other religions and declaring itself to be the best. That too is an Abrahamic tradition. Every one has done that since Moses time.

There is absolutely no evidence that the Baha'i Faith rejects other religions. In fact you are more acridly critical of other religions including the Baha'i Faith than anything the Baha'i Faith says of other religions.

You are only trying to impose your culture which is not backed by any evidence. God,Gods Goddesses do not exist. They are born of human imagination.

The Baha'i Faith has never remotely proposed imposing anything on anyone, but you are sure playing aggressive hard ball concerning those who believe differently.

What Bahai law says is not the standard in the world. Look at your treatment of women and LGBTQ.

The obedience to Baha'i Laws is voluntary, and the Baha'i Faith has made it clear that LGBTQ people must be treated equally under secular law. Your extreme vindictive bias toward those that believe differently os overly apparent.

To insist upon the worship of one God also is not the world standard today, people respect various views. You are retrograde in this respect.

Belief is totally voluntary. The Baha'is absolutely do not insist on anybody believing anything that they do not believe in, but as I said before you appear to playing aggressive hard ball about what others who believe differently..

Basically, all that you have written has no worth.

More aggressive acrid assertions concerning those who believe differently.

 

[shunyadragon]

I believe there is progressive revelation. I believe the Qu'ran has progressive revelation for the idol worshipers of Arabia and a tiny bit of little importance for the Christian community since Christians already have the Gospel which is sufficient to the end of time. I dn't believe the Bahais have any.

You don;t believe the Baha'is have any what?

Nice negative insulting view of Islam.

It is obvious you do not believe in progressive revelation beyond what you believe. This is also true of the Jews who reject the Christian Revelation.

 

[firedragon]

Some people ask why is there multiple religions in the world, which God is true the christians God or the Islamic Allah?

But what if I told you that divine revelation is progressive.

That Prophets / Messengers known as Manifestations of God has been sent in every age in human history and evolution to guide humanity in the right spiritual path, that the holy Bible and holy Qur'an was divine education that was suited for the time and age in which it was revealed in. And that we have a current Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God, and current divine scriptures / education for this time and age that we live in right now.

Edit: I've noticed that some people is addressing the "truth is not absolute but relative" statement that I made. So let me put it this way: some truths are not absolute and some truths are relative. It depends what truths are being talked about.

I think all of these theories about progressive revelations etc are mostly apologetics. There could be some changes in whatever God (if there is one) was deeming right to send as a message to humans depending on what ever is right (I cannot speak for God), but people are making a lot of things up to divide, unite, justify, plagiarise, spread, etc etc. And most of these things are assumptions.

 

[shunyadragon]

"known as Manifestations of God"

It is absolutely wrong, as I understand, to state that the office of "Prophets/Messengers of G-d" is commonly "known as Manifestations of God" in Zoroastrianism,Judaism, Christendom or in Islam. Right, please?
With this argument it is faulty and impossible to prove that Revelation is progressive as is suggested by the topic of the thread which means, as I understand, that Bahaullah's writings are progression on the previous Revelation while Bahaullah had no Word of Revelation from God. If yes, then please quote from Iqan in this connection .Right, please?

Regards
_____________
An introduction.
#182,#183

Wrong please? Your aggressive antagonism toward the Baha'i Faith is fully apparent. You realize that the Jews and Christians reject the Revelation of Muhammad have no word of Revelation.

Your acrid sarcasm is dully noted. There is no office of "Prophets/Messengers of G-d."