1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Is progressive revelation believable?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by od19g6, Dec 7, 2019.

  1. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Some people ask why is there multiple religions in the world, which God is true the christians God or the Islamic Allah?

    But what if I told you that divine revelation is progressive.

    That Prophets / Messengers known as Manifestations of God has been sent in every age in human history and evolution to guide humanity in the right spiritual path, that the holy Bible and holy Qur'an was divine education that was suited for the time and age in which it was revealed in. And that we have a current Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God, and current divine scriptures / education for this time and age that we live in right now.

    Edit: I've noticed that some people is addressing the "truth is not absolute but relative" statement that I made. So let me put it this way: some truths are not absolute and some truths are relative. It depends what truths are being talked about.
     
    #1 od19g6, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
    • Like Like x 5
  2. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    1,314
    Ratings:
    +1,131
    Religion:
    None
    If you told me that, I would say, "Show me your evidence."
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Kosher-Style Clown
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,191
    Ratings:
    +3,002
    Religion:
    Helping, Making, and Doing
    I'm not Baha'i, but... seems perfectly logical to me...
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  4. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Show you the evidence of what exactly?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  5. leov

    leov Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2019
    Messages:
    3,125
    Ratings:
    +720
    Religion:
    Gnostic Christian
    it looks that way.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    1,314
    Ratings:
    +1,131
    Religion:
    None
    Your claim(s) in the OP.
     
  7. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    And that's one reason why I am baha'i. It's because I don't want to be bias about anything, and I want to seek truths where ever it may be.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. dybmh

    dybmh Kosher-Style Clown
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2019
    Messages:
    5,191
    Ratings:
    +3,002
    Religion:
    Helping, Making, and Doing
    Me too, but I call it syncretic. The problem with syncretism ( at least for me ) is it's sometimes confusing and makes my brain hurt. The old adage about going down the river with two feet in two different boats comes to mind. Trying to move efficiently down the river this way is a lot of work. A lot. Start adding more boats... 3 boats, 4 boats, 5 boats... It just gets harder and harder and harder to keep all those boats traveling in the same direction.

    But I still can't help it; I am syncretic... sometimes to a fault.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Winner x 1
    • Informative x 1
    • Friendly x 1
    • Useful x 1
  9. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,913
    Ratings:
    +7,030
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    Logic like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. While the model makes persect sense to me there will be objections from every worldview imaginable.

    For example, some Jews will not recognise anything in the New Testament or Quran as being consisitent with Hebrew scripture.

    Many Christians believe Jesus was God incarnate, the holy trinity and the resurrection. They will be quick to reject Muhammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, Buddha and Hinduism.

    Many Muslims believe Muhammad was the last Prophet and there can be no further Prophets or Divine Revelation beyond the Quran.

    Some Buddhists are atheists and reject the concept of God.

    Some Hindus have a very negative view towards the Abraham Faiths and believe knowledge from God or gods can be accessed first hand. A belief in reincarnation can be a barrier towards seeing other faiths, particularly the Abrahamic Faiths, favourably.
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    If you're talking about the claims of the current Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God that's known as Baha'u'llah, then you will find that His life and His teachings are the proofs and evidences of what He is.
     
    #10 od19g6, Dec 7, 2019
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2019
    • Like Like x 4
  11. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    40,683
    Ratings:
    +15,843
    Religion:
    Love
    I agree but to me the Avatar of this age is Meher Baba.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  12. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    That's why Baha'u'llah explained why the religions seemed different, that all the major world scriptures are part of one book of God with different chapters of each time and age.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    What did Meher Baba teach humanity in this time and age?
     
  14. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    Messages:
    2,063
    Ratings:
    +1,569
    Religion:
    Creedalist Xian
    I'd say that you're probably a Baha'i. If you think that there's no difference between the Jesus Christ in the Qur'an and the Jesus Christ I believe in, you're going to be confused when I say there is a fundamental difference.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  15. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    I believe that one of the main reasons why some people of different faiths can't recognize progressive revelation is because of tribalism. It's about home team with people weather that be team christian or team islam. What people have to realize is that this is not about which team or tribe that you want to stick with, this is about what's true and trying to find the truths where ever we can. Plus we have to recognize this is the age of unity, that the whole human species is one family and the earth is our home.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    1,314
    Ratings:
    +1,131
    Religion:
    None
    His teachings are evidence for his teachings? That makes no sense.

    As for his life, how does his life demonstrate that he is a Messenger/Prophet of your deity?
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  17. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson ζει

    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2019
    Messages:
    2,063
    Ratings:
    +1,569
    Religion:
    Creedalist Xian
    But you are biased; you say so yourself, to wit:

    • Divine revelation continued up to and including the Baha'u'llah, and no new stuff for 1,000 years.
    • No absolute truth; all truth is relative.
    If those aren't biases, I don't know what you think "biases" are.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2018
    Messages:
    852
    Ratings:
    +635
    This should not really read "we" as this specific belief pertains only to Bahai. You should probably state something like 'Bahai have a new prophet and Bahai have new religious laws we follow".

    When you phrase it the way you did it makes it seem like all other religions agree with your version of their religions but they don't agree.

    So what are two or three "new laws" that you personally obey which are exclusive to your particular belief system? What are several which are not followed by say, humanists or atheist or those of other religious persuasion?
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  19. adrian009

    adrian009 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2014
    Messages:
    8,913
    Ratings:
    +7,030
    Religion:
    Baha'i
    There is a verse in the Gospels known as the Olivet discourse or the final Sermon of Jesus recorded before He was crucified.

    And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    Matthew 24:30

    Baha'u'llah discussed the verse in considerable detail in the Kitab-i-Iqan. It speaks to me about the traditions we have all come from that are like clouds or obscuring veils. These inherited traditions or clouds make it extremely difficult for us to see a new Messenger of God or indeed anything that departs from what we are accustomed to.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  20. od19g6

    od19g6 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2019
    Messages:
    164
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    It's because of both of the life and teachings of the Prophet / Messenger / Manifestation of God that you get the total prospective of proofs and evidences of their mission. They walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

    This is where independent investigation of truths comes into play. Baha'u'llah says that in this time and age every individual is responsible to use his / her own mind.

    Investigate Baha'u'llah's life and teachings.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
Loading...