Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
Three letters and a hyphen?
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
?
- Thread starter Alone
- Start date
so I guess this is another thing I'm trying to figure out are all these things just words or is there anything worth believing?
Ouroboros
Coincidentia oppositorum
We live by myths and metaphors constructed from words describing concepts and ideas of our world. Who knows what we really know about what we think to be reality...
I haven't finished reading the replies to this thread, however, here's my 2 cents worth on the subject.
Really there's 2 things that I think make a person a Christian. Either one, or both... that's how I see it. I could be wrong, could be right, who knows?
1) A Christian prays through Jesus and prays in Jesus' name. No one else does that. Only Christians. So that's a simple determining factor.
OR...
2) They intend to emulate the behavior of Jesus as described in the New Testament.
Using these two simple metrics, it's easy to determine if a person is a Christian.
Further, this defintion allows for some interesting combinations of belief that is non-conventional and non-denominational.
You could have a Christian Atheist for example. If that person emulates Jesus but doesn't pray at all, and finds the Christian Theology to be unsatisfying.
You could also have a Daoist Christian, Philosophical Christians, etc...
Does that help?
2 criteria, either one would allow a person to accurately describe themselves as Christian.
( Note: I'm not sure that it's fair to exclude Catholics from the above examples. Apologies to any Catholics out there if I have misrepresented your beliefs in some way )
Last edited:
PureX
Veteran Member
You answered your own question, then, mostly. We can't know the truth of God. So then it's an issue of choice, and of faith, not of knowledge. The real question is if God were to exist, what would you WANT that God to be? And, would the quality of your life improve by your choosing to trust that such a God does exist, and then living your life accordingly (even though you cannot know it to be so)? The answers to these questions would help you determine if 'faith in God' is something you want to consider pursuing, or not.
It doesn't matter what all those other Christians, or theists, believe about God. All that matters is what you choose to believe about God, and how that choice effects the quality of your life, and how you effect the quality of the lives of those around you. (This includes the choice to believe that God does not exist, too, by the way.)
Last edited:
so if I were to say I knew very very very very little about God until I was 33 I'm 43 now and upon reading the book from that God, my life has been a downward spiral ever since does that mean I should not believe in that God based on my life circumstances?
PureX
Veteran Member
It means that it would be illogical (and I suspect unhealthy) for you to hold to such a god-concept. It doesn't mean you have to give up on the idea of God, all together, or exclude the option of 'faith in God', but it certainly would indicate that you need to find a more positive conception of God if you want to try that option.
The beauty of God being such a profound mystery to we humans is that in our 'unknowing' we gain the freedom of choice. Not only the choice to trust, but of how we define the God we choose to trust, in.
Last edited:
Chris·tian
/ˈkrisCHən/
adjective
adjective: Christian
noun: Christian; plural noun: Christians
a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.
/ˈkrisCHən/
adjective
adjective: Christian
- relating to or professing Christianity or its teachings.
"the Christian Church"
noun: Christian; plural noun: Christians
a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Christianity.
leov
Well-Known Member
from the beginning Christianity was two as recorded in NT, Christianity according to Jerusalem's Ebionites and Paul's version, Jesus Principle and Christ Pinciple, Jesus Christ and Christ Jesus. Modern Christianity mixed everything under Jesus Principle and tries to Explain Paul who was of Christ Principle that became from enlightenment of Jesus Principle. It is confusing in the beginning.
So I just want to make sure I understand you clearly here, are you saying that I should find a God that is going to make my life more positive? And if so what God would you recommend?
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
Well in a sense God is an absolute. I think trying to answer your question, I'd just go to the best guide, which by reputation would be very widely thought to be the Christ. But, to believe or know of Christ we need to hear of His words and deeds, yes? To begin to know Him. So one would go to the gospel accounts to hear those. Then you'd be learning straight the real instruction from the master Teacher. It wouldn't be enough to get a 2nd hand viewpoint or paraphrase, because how could I know whether that representation is accurate? People might easily tend to filter or reinterpret. You could end up with a whole other thing, not really just like what He actually said, see. It would be ok to listen to someone else read his words to us -- that's one way to start. But it's so interesting and easy to listen to His words though for yourself. They are simple, even though often deep. Very easy to listen to. I'd read the NIV translation if I was reading the first time in the gospels. (and if I was reading for the first time I'd also definitely want to begin with a gospel, such as Matthew)
Last edited:
so I should (in your opinion) just take the scriptures as absolute truth and not worry about what others say? I have to admit I'm tending to lean towards that direction, although as humans we "seem" to have the desire to try to prove things.!!!! Although I would most definitely admit that proving God is hard to do, other than a person's conscious self-awareness?
halbhh
The wonder and awe of "all things".
heh heh, I could only tell my own experience -- I am the type, for better or for worse, that would not listen much to what others say, but go to the source and try to see/hear for myself. Get my own direct impression. And then since part of what Christ says includes at times instructions on how to live -- "Love your neighbor as yourself" and other very direct clear things like this -- then for me, it occured to me to test these. So, I'm not the kind that would take something as 'absolute truth' until after years of testing what He said, and then finally admitting one thing at a time that this way was the best possible way of the various competing ideas/ways I had tested (which were many other ways). It took a while, since some of these things take weeks or months to play out in a clear way. I don't think someone else would be just like me (though some might be), needing so much confirmation. So, I'm not the guide. Not the method. But if you read what He said, then you'd get an accurate impression of Him. That's a big difference from hearing people give their viewpoints!
Amazing things happened just from these instructions on how to live. And, when I eventually moved to trying some of the more unlikely things He said (unlikely in my own mere viewpoint), then even more amazing outcomes happened.
Last edited:
It could mean that in reading that book an understanding of how one should live their life was imparted. Then we can consider that life is then a turmoil between what we see we should become, with what we currently are.
In your scenario one had 33 years to live for the world. Then upon reading how we should be living in the Spirit, it will not be an easy transition.
It becomes a journey of change, 'Little by Little, Day by Day'.
It is a great bounty to have that turmoil, we embrace it and learn from it and by doing that slowly remove the plank from our own eyes.
Regards Tony
Very good observation that is the exact struggle that I am dealing with!!!!
As I understand it, there is a considerable observer effect at work when answering these kinds of questions.
Also... and this may be a bit controversial... Christianity is somewhat more aimed at establishing parameters for communities than for individuals.
With those provisos, the general measure is that a Christian would acknowledge some version of the concept of Jesus the Christ as valid and in some sense important for his or her religious practice. Without that acknowledgement, we would have to assume the person to be a non-Christian.
In practice, it becomes fuzzy, often intentionally so.
So....... What would be your opinion on someone who is trying to make Christianity and individual aspect rather than a community aspect? If there is such a thing.
Well done, that is growth and it is a great bounty to have that vision.
I have found life is a journey to balance all that is good with all that we see is not so good. All of it is given to us, as to enable us to make choices, to make ourselves a better person.
If life is good, or if we are content with our material life, then we are not in a state of growth. All the Holy Books confirm that growth in spirit requires a level of sacrafice and pain.
In saying this it does not mean that all that is good in life cannot be pursued, it means that we have choices as to what we do with all that good and those choices will involve much internal turmoil.
It is a big subject, Regards Tony
Not necessarily the most comforting thing for me to say that I agree!
Jim
Nets of Wonder
It means different things to different people, and sometimes even to the same person in different contexts. Besides that, what it actually means to a person in practice might be very different from what they say it means to them. The best solution I’ve found is not to use the word at all, and spell out each time whatever if is that you want to say or ask about. Can you give some examples of where this question has come up for you in conversations? For example, are you wondering whether or not to call yourself or someone else a “Christian”?