Who is Jesus?

[EtuMalku]

Yin and Yang can be + and - too, does not mean it is feminine or masculine it only means the opposite.

Masculine energies are Yang or plainly active energies, while Feminine energies (Yin) are passive energies.
My point, however, was not as complex as this in that the Abrahamic faiths have excelled in removing the Feminine from their ideologies.

 

[Darkforbid]

Is it? I like to think 'humanity' has progressed in many ways, and certainly in improved ways from the biblical ages . . . egads!

Like?

 

[Riders]

Sounds logical. Thanks!

All the traditional churches around here in TX believe and teach he is God. Unity churches and the Unitarian Universalist church are the only ones who teach he isn't God.The Quakers leave it p to the individual, all the other denominations teach he is God.

 

[blü 2]

I've heard a number of analogies trying to explain it, but I've found all to be flawed, according to my monotheistic, Jewish mind. So I still don't get it.

A note on your conversation with @Riders.

None of the five versions of Jesus in the NT ever says he's God. Instead, each of them says clearly at least once that he's not God.

Notwithstanding, in the 4th century CE there was formidable political pressure to make the central figure of Christian worship God. Unfortunately it was politically unacceptable to have two gods, Father and Son, because that would be polytheistic hence pagan.

A number of possibilities were rejected or implicitly excluded: God is NOT three gods. God is NOT a corporation with a board of three. God is NOT a partnership with three partners. God is NOT the sum of his parts.

Instead, the one God "exists as three persons and one substance". (I'm quoting the Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church.) The persons are the Father, Son and Ghost ─ and the Father and Son, Father and Ghost, and Son and Ghost are all distinct from each other. But although there's only one God, each of them is God ─ and since God is not the sum of his parts, each is 100% of God.

Now 100%+100%+100%=300%= 3 gods, so there's a problem here. The problem is dealt with by declaring the Trinity doctrine to be "a mystery in the strict sense" (which distinguishes it from the church's more ordinary "mysteries").

This means that "it can neither be known by unaided human reason apart from revelation, nor cogently demonstrated by reason after it has been revealed" (Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church again).

Therefore, as a moment's thought reveals, the expression "mystery in the strict sense" is a synonym for "an incoherent notion" ─ "a nonsense" if you like. I assume they prefer "mystery in the strict sense" because it sounds better.

You'll recall from the NT that the Jesus of Mark had ordinary earthly parents and only became the son of God by adoption, just as King David had done; that the Jesuses of Matthew and of Luke didn't exist until the divine impregnation of Mary (so that they have God's Y-chromosome); and that only the Jesuses of the two gnostics, Paul and the author of John, pre-existed in heaven with God. The Trinity doctrine, as you can see, sides with the last two and against the first three.

 

[EtuMalku]

Like?

1. Extreme poverty is on the decline
2. Hunger is on the decline
3. Child labor is on the decline
4. People in developed countries have more leisure time
5. Life expectancy is on the incline
6. Child mortality is on the decline
7. Death in childbirth is rare
8. Homicide rates have fallen dramatically
9. We’ve rapidly reduced the supply of nuclear weapons
10. Political freedom and civil liberties are on the uprise
11. Literacy is up
12. Spirituality and Science are explaining life better than ever

I mean really, the biblical ages kinda sucked . . . it could only get better from then, don't you think?

 

[Darkforbid]

1. Extreme poverty is on the decline
2. Hunger is on the decline
3. Child labor is on the decline
4. People in developed countries have more leisure time
5. Life expectancy is on the incline
6. Child mortality is on the decline
7. Death in childbirth is rare
8. Homicide rates have fallen dramatically
9. We’ve rapidly reduced the supply of nuclear weapons
10. Political freedom and civil liberties are on the uprise
11. Literacy is up
12. Spirituality and Science are explaining life better than ever

I mean really, the biblical ages kinda sucked . . . it could only get better from then, don't you think?

That's the past in general. What you said, and I replied to was

'THAT may be the only smart thing they every did . . . what a bloody, evil, mess that OT is!'

And death due to pregnancy is around 810 a day, that's not exactly rare

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I am trying to see what people who have not read the Bible, or who have read it only a little, understand about the nature of Jesus. I don't care if you believe it or not, just trying to get an idea of what people think it says.

Do people already "know" that Jesus is God before ever cracking the book. In other words, if and when they do open the book for the first time, do they have preconceived ideas about Jesus?

Thanks!

Are you only asking non-Westerners? Because I can't imagine anyone living in the West since childhood has never heard of Jesus. I admit that I had pre-concieved ideas about Jesus because my mom was a strong Christian for her whole life (although she was a pretty tolerant person who had her own beliefs as well, but I don't believe in all of her beliefs, such as reincarnation). But that doesn't make my beliefs and experiences lesser than anyone else's.

 

[Riders]

Are you only asking non-Westerners? Because I can't imagine anyone living in the West since childhood has never heard of Jesus. I admit that I had pre-concieved ideas about Jesus because my mom was a strong Christian for her whole life (although she was a pretty tolerant person who had her own beliefs as well, but I don't believe in all of her beliefs, such as reincarnation). But that doesn't make my beliefs and experiences lesser than anyone else's.

Yes I thought that exaclty when i first read the post not in America, we all know or have our own notions of who Jesus is.

 

[EtuMalku]

That's the past in general. What you said, and I replied to was

'THAT may be the only smart thing they every did . . . what a bloody, evil, mess that OT is!'

And death due to pregnancy is around 810 a day, that's not exactly rare

I'm not following . . . huh?

 

[EtuMalku]

That's the past in general. What you said, and I replied to was

'THAT may be the only smart thing they every did . . . what a bloody, evil, mess that OT is!'

And death due to pregnancy is around 810 a day, that's not exactly rare

I said:

I like to think 'humanity' has progressed in many ways, and certainly in improved ways from the biblical ages . . . egads!

And you replied with:

Like?

So, I made a quick list . . . am I missing something?

 

[Harel13]

A note on your conversation with @Riders.

Thanks.

You'll recall from the NT

I don't know the NT that well.

Okay, so let me rephrase my statement: I don't understand the Christian god. I've heard some analogies that try to explain it, but all have seemed flawed to my monotheistic, Jewish mind.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Okay, so let me rephrase my statement: I don't understand the Christian god. I've heard some analogies that try to explain it, but all have seemed flawed to my monotheistic, Jewish mind.

But 'one God', a six-day creation along with that of Adam and Eve, has no problems, nor has the flood!

 

[Harel13]

But 'one God', a six-day creation along with that of Adam and Eve, has no problems, nor has the flood!

I've asked those questions and found answers. Admittingly, I haven't tried as hard to understand the Christian god, nor do I find it as important as understanding the Torah. I'm just sayin' it doesn't make sense.

 

[blü 2]

Thanks.

I don't know the NT that well.

Okay, so let me rephrase my statement: I don't understand the Christian god. I've heard some analogies that try to explain it, but all have seemed flawed to my monotheistic, Jewish mind.

That's fair. The answer is that instead of a single concept of the Christian god, there are three main models.

The first and most usual is the Trinity, which as I hope I explained above is a 4th century political expedient ─ "God exists as three persons and one substance", and each of the persons, although having a completely separate identity, is the entirety of God. It's inescapably incoherent, but very popular because it makes Jesus God without polytheism and keeps the Father at the same time. (I don't know why the Ghost is included, but asked to guess, I'd say the Ghost is modeled on the Tanakh's ruach, the Jewish concept of which (as I understand it) is not of a separate being, but a manifestation of God himself ─ something you may well know about better than I do.

Most but not all Christian denominations are Trinitarian. The non-Trinitarian concept of the unitary and only God starts of course with the Tanakh's, but adds God's involvement with Jesus, and the doctrines attributed to Jesus. Some of them hold to the Christian notion of the 'New Covenant' (no circumcision) but I seem to recall there are a few exceptions.

Both these kinds are much influenced by Greek thought (like the NT itself), to a much greater extent than is Judaism, though it too isn't free of Greek ideas. The idea, particularly in the Synoptics, of giving away your wealth, taking to the road, engaging strangers in discussions of belief and philosophy, and trusting in God and the kindness of friends and strangers for somewhere to eat and sleep, is from the Cynics; the gnosticism of Paul and John is a Greek hybrid; the idea of a distinct place, the Underworld, where the souls of the dead go, face judgment, and receive various kinds of punishment or reward, are from Greece; and so on.

The third kind is Jesus in a different context ─ a different revelation, if you like. The two that immediately come to mind are the Mormon Jesus and the Rastafarian Jesus, but you may come across other contenders from time to time.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Do people already "know" that Jesus is God before ever cracking the book. In other words, if and when they do open the book for the first time, do they have preconceived ideas about Jesus?

Who is Jesus? He's the central character in a major religion, Christianity.

Most of us know that Christians teach and believe that Jesus is a god or the son of a god, born of a virgin, crucified, and resurrected before ever seeing a Bible.

I don't really need to read the Bible to reject those claims. I'm a rational skeptic, and the claims are both extraordinary and unevidenced. So naturally, I don't believe that the character ever lived as described. No doubt many people wandered the Middle East in the first century AD. Maybe one was a heretic Jew named Jesus who actually had twelve disciples, but I have no reason to believe so. Nor would it matter either way. If Jesus wasn't a god, it doesn't matter whether he was a mythical character or not.

Nor do I get my understanding of what Christians believe from the Bible. I get it from them in venues like this one, and the news.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[Katzpur]

The third kind is Jesus in a different context ─ a different revelation, if you like. The two that immediately come to mind are the Mormon Jesus and the Rastafarian Jesus, but you may come across other contenders from time to time.

I know nothing about anyone other than the Jesus Christ of the Bible. That would be your "Mormon Jesus."

 

[roberto]

Who is Jesus?
Was jesus not the guy that nailed the law of Moses to the/his cross?
Allowing Christians to;
Eat pork
Worship on Sunday
Follow heathen feast days like Christ-mass, Janus-day, Haloween, Eostre-day etc. etc.
I think Christians also believe there is a 3days and 3nights period from Friday evening to Sunday, when jesus was buried.

Hope this helps.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

To me, Jesus is the son of an adulteress who raised him with her and her husband's children. He became a zealot, chomping against the bit of the Roman Empire and finding himself on the wrong side of Pontius Pilate. Maybe he felt self-conscious about not knowing his dad and wanted to make a name for himself that wasn't 'Miriam's *******'. I can imagine it may have taken a toll on him and his self-esteem. This may have resulted in paradoxical delusions of grandeur to compensate.

What? Where do you get these ideas?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Who is Jesus?
Was jesus not the guy that nailed the law of Moses to the/his cross?
Allowing Christians to;
Eat pork
Worship on Sunday
Follow heathen feast days like Christ-mass, Janus-day, Haloween, Eostre-day etc. etc.
I think Christians also believe there is a 3days and 3nights period from Friday evening to Sunday, when jesus was buried.

Hope this helps.

No, He does not approve of such pagan ideas....in fact, He knew that “many” of His followers would even perform “powerful works”, but he and his Father wouldn’t be backing them. (Matthew 7:21-23) From where would these ones be getting their power, then?

You can’t blame Jesus, for the actions of those who may claim to be his followers, but don’t follow his instructions.

 

[Rival]

What? Where do you get these ideas?

From the text. If we don't know who Jesus' dad was and it wasn't Joseph, Mary's husband, he may have been self-conscious about that. It is only recently it's became alright not to know your father. He may have been ostracised and thus felt the need to make up for it somehow. That is, looking at it from a non-Christian POV.